Simple Rogue Variant

[werk]

rogue level 1 has a BAB of +0, does the fighter really want to lose +1 BAB?

- Felnar

In exchange for evasion?

 

[Li Shenron]

Would it be balanced to allow a rogue sacrifice a dice of sneak attack ability in order to get all subsequent special abilities (including trap sense, uncanny dodge and high level special abilities, but not additional sneak attack dice ) a level early? The rogue could take this option multiple times.

A rogue that used the ability multiple times could get evasion at level 1, uncanny dodge at level 3, improved uncanny dodge at level 5, and the first special ability at level 7, but would not have any sneak attack dice at all.

I don't know why you want to do this, but is it really worth past level 1?

Once you reach the level at which you would have got that ability anyway, you're a normal Rogue with one sneak attack dice less.

 

[Cheiromancer]

I don't know why you want to do this, but is it really worth past level 1?

Once you reach the level at which you would have got that ability anyway, you're a normal Rogue with one sneak attack dice less.

Yeah, but at several levels you would have an ability the rogue wouldn't have. It might not be worth it, though. Maybe two levels earlier (minimum of 2nd) would be better?

If it was 2 levels instead of 1, a rogue could give up 1d6 and get uncanny dodge at 2nd level and improved uncanny dodge at 6th. The first special ability would be at 8th level instead of 10th. That would seem to be an attractive option. Throughout his career the rogue would have an extra ability about 2/3 of the time, and would always be down 1d6 SA. Would that be balanced?

As to why you might do this, well, it might fit a character concept, particularly for an NPC, it could be useful in multiclassing, or in meeting PrCl pre-req's a level early. A DM could use it to balance homebrew base classes.

 

[Nifft]

Disagree. Fighter L1 gets armor, weapons, shields, and BAB +1. Which means he can draw a weapon while moving at the start of combat, and qualifies for feats like Exotic Weapon Prof. and Weapon Focus at level 1.

-- N

 

[Li Shenron]

Yeah, but at several levels you would have an ability the rogue wouldn't have.

If I understand the previous posts however, you forgo a single +1d6 sneak forever for each ability you want a level earlier. So to have several of them one level earlier, you may be giving up almost all your sneak attack...

I don't know... I could even consider just "eschewing" the first Rogue level (only with regards to special abilities, not BAB and ST!) and wouldn't see big problems in that, except that Trapfinding would still be given. Or in other words, you could (1) shift all sneak attack damage one level later and (2) shift the other special abilities one level earlier. That's probably an overall slight enhancement however.

As to why you might do this, well, it might fit a character concept, particularly for an NPC, it could be useful in multiclassing, or in meeting PrCl pre-req's a level early. A DM could use it to balance homebrew base classes.

Mmmm.... for an NPC I wouldn't care to break the rules at all. But for a PC I have a hard time thinking why a character concept must need something earlier than normal. And as to qualify earlier for a PrCl, if the DM is willing to accept that he could just make a deal with the player that he gets the PrCl at some other cost.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Just to clarify- sacrificing one sneak attack moves up all the later special abilities by one level. Or maybe two- the exact number isn't important, but they do affect all later abilities. I am not at all sure that shifting them one is an overall enhancement, though.