Simulacra and Familiars?

[Limper]

OK is a Wizard/Sorcerer has created a Simulacrum of themselves can the Sim summon a familiar?

I lean toward yes since it doesn't cost XPs but what is your take?

Thank you

Limper

 

[Iron_Chef]

OK is a Wizard/Sorcerer has created a Simulacrum of themselves can the Sim summon a familiar?

I lean toward yes since it doesn't cost XPs but what is your take?

Thank you

Limper

I asked this question before and they said "no" because the simulacra is not "real"; while a clone is.

 

[James McMurray]

I don't see any problems with it. It says that the simulacrum has all of the abilities of the original. If one of those abilities is "summon familiar" then the simulacrum can use that ability.

Although the simulacrum cannot become more powerful, there's nothing stating that it cannot become less powerful. If its familiar dies, it can still lose XP, and if it loses enough XP to lose a level, that level will go away, never to return.

 

[Stormrunner]

My take is no, it can't. A familiar is intimately connected to its master's soul: it never gains additional skills/feats/xp/levels of its own but rather increases in power in step with the power of its master, the master has the same "connection" to a place as the familiar does for purposes of teleport and the like, and if the master is slain and then raised/resurrected/reincarnated soon after,the familiar stays with him - it knows that despite the new body "it's really him".
A Simulacrum, OTOH, has no soul of its own. It is an animated snow sculpture (rather like a golem), cloaked in illusion and shadow magic to give it the appearance of the target, and with a familiar-like link to the target (hence the need for a piece of the target) to "copy" the target's powers. Note that the spell school is Illusion(Shadow), not Conjuration. The simulacrum is not a living creature, or even an undead creature, and hence cannot have a familiar.
A generous GM might allow you to sculpt a "duplicate familiar" as part of creating the simulacrum of a familiar-toting wizard, but this would essentially be a seperately-mobile piece of the main simulacrum rather than a true familiar. A less-generous GM would probably require a seperate casting of Simulacrum to duplicate the familiar.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I don't see any problems with it. It says that the simulacrum has all of the abilities of the original. If one of those abilities is "summon familiar" then the simulacrum can use that ability.

Although if the wizard already has a familiar when the simulacrum is made, I'd rule that the simulacrum wouldn't be able to either a/ at all, as long as the wizard's familiar remained, or b/ for a year and a day. And the simulacrum would have an Empathic Link to the wizard's familiar, could cast Touch spells through it, gain Alertness when it's within 5', etc.

If the wizard hadn't already summoned a familiar before creating the simulacrum, then they could both subsequently summon one of their own.

-Hyp.

 

[James McMurray]

Although if the wizard already has a familiar when the simulacrum is made, I'd rule that the simulacrum wouldn't be able to either a/ at all, as long as the wizard's familiar remained, or b/ for a year and a day. And the simulacrum would have an Empathic Link to the wizard's familiar, could cast Touch spells through it, gain Alertness when it's within 5', etc.

If the wizard hadn't already summoned a familiar before creating the simulacrum, then they could both subsequently summon one of their own.

-Hyp.

Why? They aren't the same creature. The original having a familiar already has no more bearing onthe duplicate than the orignal's twin brother having a familiar would have. on the original himself.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Why? They aren't the same creature.

But the Simulacrum has the same powers as the original.

One of the original's powers is "Empathic Link to Kermit the Toad".

One of the original's other powers is "Summon Familiar"... but only after he's been without Kermit the Toad for a year and a day.

-Hyp.

 

[James McMurray]

So then would the simulacrum be able to try to wrest control of the familiar from the original? If so, then your reasoning is sound. If not, then Kermit obviously isn't the simulacrum's familiar and the im won't count as having had a familiar within the past year and a day.

 

[Hypersmurf]

So then would the simulacrum be able to try to wrest control of the familiar from the original?

What do you mean by "wrest control"?

A familiar serves; it's isn't a robot. The simulacrum could give it instructions over the Empathic Link, just as the wizard could. It's up to the familiar what to do with those instructions...

On the other hand, the simulacrum is under the absolute command of the creator, but no telepathic link exists. It could be quite useful for a wizard to create a simulacrum of himself, and use his familiar as a relay to send empathic
messages to the simulacrum at distances of, potentially, up to two miles...

-Hyp.

 

[James McMurray]

By "wrest control" I mean "give counter orders to." A familiar may be its own creature, but as you said "it serves." Thus it will generally take orders from its master.

The simulacrum is usually under the absolute control of its creator. What if comeone takes control of it.

Also, if Kermit counts as the sim's familiar, it shares spells with the sim and its previous master? If not, then it obviously doesn't count as the sim's familiar.