Single or Multiple Saves?

Metalsmith said:
A party sees a group of 10 Mummies: Do they make 1 Save or 10 Saves for the Mummies Despair Will DC 15?


Make 10 saves, facing 10 mummies is alot scarier than facing 1. Or if you want 1 save roll for the bunch, increase the will save DC by +1 or +2 per factor of 2 mummies:
2 mummies ---> DC 16
4 mummies ---> DC 17
8 mummies ---> DC 18
16 mummies ---> DC 19
32 mummies ---> DC 20
etc.
 
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-Eä- said:
For fireballs? One save if they hit exactly at the same time

They can't hit at the same time. If you ready or delay the second fireball will come before or after the first, respectively.
 

Re: Re: Single or Multiple Saves?

I vote for all 10 saves. I know it is a pain in the butt, but it's the fairest solution.

One save is totally lame and lowers the CR of the encounter drastically.

An increased DC save, although it results in a lot less rolls, could result in a character failing, even though he may have saved on all 10 lower DC rolls. So, I think it somewhat unfair.

A side note on this. If you are going to increase the DC for multiple simultaneous opponents and make it one roll, increase it by 1 per two opponents (or something similar), not via the EL rules on increasing the EL by 1 per doubling of opponents. Mathematically, that will be a lot closer. Of course, it is all dependent on what your saves are, but the EL rules are way too lenient if used for this, especially for large numbers of opponents.

For example, if there are 40 opponents, even if you have a good add to your save, there is a high chance of you rolling a 1 with 40 rolls. So, +20 to the DC is realistic (if you do not want to roll 40 dice). +5 to the DC is a bit of a joke.

Again, I would not recommend upping the DC at all, but if you want to simplify it, keep the DC in line with the threat level of the number of creatures.
 

IanB said:
The mummies would be able to coup de grace the players who are standing paralyzed (this assumes the mummies can reach the players with their move of 20 before the duration runs out, admittedly not a sure thing.)

Bah, Coup de Grace is for Whimp Game Masters!

I'm no Whimp.

Metalsmith
 




AuraSeer said:
Any DM who orchestrates a TPK with CR3 monsters is not exactly a wimp in my book. A bastard maybe, but not a wimp. ;)

I once had a DM (just last year) that set up an encounter in a town with a bunch of mercenaries attacking the PCs.

I was running a wilderness character who had no clue about how to act in a town. He had never been in a town (and had an Int of 6 to boot, he was a basic lost child in the wilderness character with a very detailed background explaining it).

So, when we went to the mercenary headquarters to find out what was going on, my naive character attacked the two guards (in the same uniform) outside when they started to give him major lip. Every town combat encounter the DM had run was teaching this character that you pulled out a weapon and bashed heads in this world, usually with no provocation (my character had gotten attacked and captured by solders, attacked by a press gang, and attacked by these mercenaries, all in town environments where we just were walking down the street at the time).

I was roleplaying my character by attacking the enemies of my family (until meeting the PCs, the character had only known two people before). The DM thought this was inappropriate for a CG character, so he immediately pulled dozens of enemies out of the surrounding woodwork (as if there are just dozens of mercenaries just waiting around every corner for a big fight to break out, but weren't there when you walked up the street a moment earlier) and basically said "You're dead" (two PCs had fled, one got knocked out and captured even though no dice were rolled).

When a fellow player asked why the DM did not play out the combat and give my character a chance at escape, the DM answered "It's not worth my time."

So, I stood up, said "This is not worth my time" and walked out the door. Only time I ever did that in a game. Now, that was a bastard DM.
 

KarinsDad said:
So, I stood up, said "This is not worth my time" and walked out the door. Only time I ever did that in a game. Now, that was a bastard DM.

That really sucks, dude, seriously. I've been wondering something though, how does this kind of thing happen in the first place? Was he someone you didn't know well? I have a general rule: I don't play in any DM's game unless I know that DM pretty well, not even a one-shot.

Does anybody else do the same, or is it just me?
 
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Re: Re: Re: Single or Multiple Saves?

KarinsDad said:
I vote for all 10 saves. I know it is a pain in the butt, but it's the fairest solution.

One save is totally lame and lowers the CR of the encounter drastically.
Again, I would not recommend upping the DC at all, but if you want to simplify it, keep the DC in line with the threat level of the number of creatures.

An increased save would optimally give the same probability of making the save or not, though give a greater variance. It's a rather easy process to calculate this. Basically you calculate the chance of making all the saves, and thereafter increase the DC accordingly. If you have a calculator at hand, this would be easy to do. To me it makes more sense, and it would NOT lower the CR because the chance of success is equal.


And...two fireballs CAN hit simultaneously, even though they cannot physically speaking. If we're talking about milliseconds, I would rule that they hit simultaneously.
 

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