Six Blind Men and the Fourth Edition....

Umbran said:
Well, we should note that this pattern is nothing new. We were playing with similar puzzle pieces back on Eric Noah's original site.

Or, ignoring the site reference, at least Dragon magazine had good, quality, rules and detailed bits about it for up to a year, they seemed proud to show it off.

This time around it feels like they really don't beleive they are producing a worthwile product ...kinda like when a movie studio knows they have a crapper on their hands they release painfully few details and don't let anyone see it in previews.

-DM Jeff
 

log in or register to remove this ad

The difference with the 3e initial rumors was that, yes, WotC was releasing teasers, but they were releasing chunks of hints at a time, and they gave you a broad sense of what was changing. The 'little mysterious bits' were leaks from playtesters and such, and they weren't part of the intended dribbling of information. We put most of our effort deciphering those clues.

The stuff leaked from WotC was pretty straightforward. It was the unintended information that was so tantalizing.

I think WotC could do a lot to help quiet down our **tching if they released information in big blocks, like they did through Dragon back in 1999 and 2000. Like,

10 Ways You Can Play Fourth Edition Now (Thanks to Chris Nightwing for an earlier version; some of this is conjecture):

1) Give 1st level characters triple hit points (but apply Con only once). At the end of an encounter, a character who is unconscious stabilizes at -1 hit points. Conscious creatures who are below half their full hit point total heal to 1/2 their full. Creatures who are above half heal to full.

2) Saving throws are replaced by Fortitude, Reflex, and Will defense, which start at 10 + your level. Classes with a good progression of a given save get +2 to the associated defense. When multiclassing, use the best bonus for each defense; they don't stack. Whenever an ability would normally call for a saving throw, the initiator rolls d20+their level+associated ability score (Int for Wizards, for instance) against the appropriate defense.

3) Characters also gain a +1 dodge bonus to AC per level.

4) Remove metamagic and item creation feats. Any character can create magic items now if they have the appropriate spells and caster level. However, magic items are much less necessary. Half the recommended character wealth at each level. Remove all items that grant bonuses to AC and saves, other than armor and shields. Weapon and armor enhancement bonuses do not go above +1.

5) Replace sorcerers and wizards with warlocks, but let warlocks acquire spellbooks. Each day they can cast one spell per level, to a maximum spell level of half their class level rounded up. However, these spells are rituals, and their casting time is extended by ten minutes.

6) Every character's base attack bonus is +1 per two levels (as a wizard), but classes with average progression get a +1 at 1st level, and classes with good progression get +2 at 1st level. As with saves, when multiclassing just use the best bonus. Also, there are no iterative attacks. Characters get a bonus to weapon damage equal to their base attack bonus.

7) Let characters with special ablities such as Smite or Rage use them once per encounter instead of limiting them per day. Encourage fighters to take martial feats to gain maneuvers and stances from the Book of Nine Swords.

8) Combine skills, for instance Hide/Move Silently -> Stealth, Spot/Listen/Search/Sense Motive -> Perception. Remove synergy bonuses. Otherwise keep skill points, ranks and standard DCs for ease of play.

9) Enhance the changes made by playing a particular race as character level increases. Grant abilities from the racial paragon classes of Unearthed Arcana every 5 levels.

10) The Marshal is a base class, but it gains a bonus feat at 1st level and every even level, which can be used to learn martial maneuvers and stances of the White Raven style.
 

By the way, here's the original 3e teaser from Dragon long ago:

1.) Armor Class: Recalculate AC so it goes upward. Add to hit bonus (including THAC0 Increases) to hit rolls.
2.) Level Limits: Ignore them. Allow any class/race combo, but with a -20% XP to each class added beyond the first.
3.) Monk's and Assassins: Use from Greyhawk Supplement Scarlet Brotherhood (editor: a great sourcebook, IMHO). Monks must be lawful, assassins non-good.
4.) Character Creation: 4d6 method.
5.) Exceptional Str: recalculate the % str table so that the first tier is a 19, second a 20, etc. No more rolling.
6.) Initiative: Roll once per encounter. Allow refocus and delay.
7.) Combat Rounds: Use 6 second. Divide all time-dependent info by 10 unless already in rounds. All spells are resolved on caster's initiative (not casting time).
8.) Spell Bonuses: Give all spellcasting classes bonus spells like a cleric does, using Int for mages and bards and wisdom for paladins and rangers.
9.) Critical Hits: A natural 20 is a threat. A second confirmed attack roll does double damage, a failed second roll does normal damage.
10.) Healing Spells: Allow Priest characters (later errata'd clerics only) to trade a spell slot for healing equal to spell level in d8's (4th level spell=4d8). Paladins and Rangers (and later Druids) cannot do this.
 

DM_Jeff said:
Or, ignoring the site reference, at least Dragon magazine had good, quality, rules and detailed bits about it for up to a year, they seemed proud to show it off.

I wasn't subscribed to Dragon at the time. But I was on EN's site, and it isn't like the Dragon stuff didn't come in there, too. I don't recall the news being really any more accurate or substantive.

And, of course, I recall folks complaining at the speed with which it came out then, too.

I have to tell you - and I mean this as no slight to any specific individual, I mean it only in the collective sense - the lack of patience and sense of ... entitlement seen in the players (then and now) puts me off sometimes. It puts me off much more than the sense that WotC is manipulating us.
 

We have already seen more hints than have been released publicly I think. It has been stated that SWSE and a lot of the more recent 3.5 books have been influenced, however slightly in some cases, by the 4e development at the point those books were written.

From Chris Perkins' interview on Gaming Steve (no link immediately to hand, sorry) the plan is to be running 4e games at the D&D Experience in late February next year.
 

Zaruthustran said:
I've been enjoying the steady trickle of information. WotC can't release hard info because such info doesn't exist. The game is in development, even now, as Michele Carter's post illustrates (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=213176&page=4&pp=30).
I just want to know why Michele's blog isn't linked on the main list from the WotC front page. It's often had some enlightening tidbits in it.

And while some of the blind men have occasionally let go of the elephant and grabbed the camel's arse by mistake, thinking they're examining the same thing, I don't know what other method WotC should make available to us at this point.

-Sir Brennen of the Blind Man Avatar
 

Umbran said:
Well, we should note that this pattern is nothing new. We were playing with similar puzzle pieces back on Eric Noah's original site. If it is a planned strategy, it isn't one that's changed much in form.
Seems new to me, since we got more and better detailed information at the same time or earlier with 3e (in Dragon magazine). Further, we started getting information a full 12 months in advance.

Before I consider whether I like this mode of information flow, I have to state that I don't think there is any other mode that would make sense for WotC, other than simply holding all information close to their chests until the actual release. I'm open to suggestions of how else they might have gone about it that would have been better for us, and still made business sense for them, but I've yet to hear one.
I refer again to what they did during 3e. There is no evidence to show what they did then would hurt them now.
 

Umbran said:
I have to tell you - and I mean this as no slight to any specific individual, I mean it only in the collective sense - the lack of patience and sense of ... entitlement seen in the players (then and now) puts me off sometimes. It puts me off much more than the sense that WotC is manipulating us.

Why does someone else's sense of entitlement affect you at all? I could understand it if you were a rep of WotC, and someone was making such a demand from you, but why should someone's demand for more information from WotC bother you?
 

Umbran said:
I wasn't subscribed to Dragon at the time. But I was on EN's site, and it isn't like the Dragon stuff didn't come in there, too. I don't recall the news being really any more accurate or substantive.

Still owning those Dragons, and having recently looked through them, I conclude that the news was accurate and far more substantive.

RC
 

DaveMage said:
Why does someone else's sense of entitlement affect you at all? I could understand it if you were a rep of WotC, and someone was making such a demand from you, but why should someone's demand for more information from WotC bother you?
I think the difference comes from "demand" rather than "request."
 

Remove ads

Top