sizing claws of the beast

[xen_xheng]

I'm running a psionic-havy campaign, and some questions came up which require almost certainly house rules:

The "Claws of the Beast" power in the Psionic Handbook is defined only for small, medium and large creatures.

What would you house-rule for larger creatures? (huge, colossal, etc - i.e. dragons)

What about when using enlarge person in somebody with the power (all 3 sizes cases)?
Or when using polymorph (huge creature)?

It gets more complicated: with the warshaper prestige (complete warrior), a psychic warrior polymorphed into a troll (he got metamorphosis via feat at lvl 15) and using the power says he uses natural weapons as a size greater (morphic weapons). I'm not sure if allowing this, or how to house rule it.

And more yet: Questioning WoTC for rules about using metapsionics with the power, they answered the power could be used with empower and maximize. As such, an empowered version of the power used at lv 18 with "Overchannel" feat can use the maximum version of the power (6d6 for large creatures) empowered (9d6?). What happens now when sizing this result? What would you house-rule?


thanks for your advice

 

[Infiniti2000]

The damage table seems to follow the normal weapon-size progression. I'd just use that in the very rare case it is needed.

It gets more complicated: with the warshaper prestige (complete warrior), a psychic warrior polymorphed into a troll (he got metamorphosis via feat at lvl 15) and using the power says he uses natural weapons as a size greater (morphic weapons). I'm not sure if allowing this, or how to house rule it.

That has nothing to do with this power, though. This power creates 'claws', so if you already have claws, you get different ones depending on how many power points you spend. You could even get worse claws.

And more yet: Questioning WoTC for rules about using metapsionics with the power, they answered the power could be used with empower and maximize. As such, an empowered version of the power used at lv 18 with "Overchannel" feat can use the maximum version of the power (6d6 for large creatures) empowered (9d6?). What happens now when sizing this result? What would you house-rule?

That would be a really bad houserule and it's a really bad suggestion by WotC. I don't know what to say except advise you not to adopt it as a houserule.

 

[xen_xheng]

The damage table seems to follow the normal weapon-size progression. I'd just use that in the very rare case it is needed.

It does no follow the sizing table exactly, since it addas a "5d6" step between 4d6 and 6d6; yet in the rare cases that it appeared, I used the standard table from 6d6 onwards

That has nothing to do with this power, though. This power creates 'claws', so if you already have claws, you get different ones depending on how many power points you spend. You could even get worse claws.

If you already have claws (as when using the "Claws of the Beast" power, the Morphic Weapons ability AUGMENTS those claws to the next size category. There started my sizing problems with players.

That would be a really bad houserule and it's a really bad suggestion by WotC. I don't know what to say except advise you not to adopt it as a houserule.

It was not a suggestion from them; it was a rules clarification question. Yet I'm undecided...
Is it overpowered using the empower metapower?

thanks anyway

 

[Shadowdweller]

And more yet: Questioning WoTC for rules about using metapsionics with the power, they answered the power could be used with empower and maximize. As such, an empowered version of the power used at lv 18 with "Overchannel" feat can use the maximum version of the power (6d6 for large creatures) empowered (9d6?). What happens now when sizing this result? What would you house-rule?

The general rule for empower spell/power feats in 3.5 is roll the appropriate number and multiply by 1.5
So if you decided that the base damage was 6d6, you'd roll that (avg 21) and multiply by 1.5 (averaging 31).

It gets more complicated: with the warshaper prestige (complete warrior), a psychic warrior polymorphed into a troll (he got metamorphosis via feat at lvl 15) and using the power says he uses natural weapons as a size greater (morphic weapons). I'm not sure if allowing this, or how to house rule it.

I don't have the CW for reference, so I don't know the opportunity cost of going Warshaper. But using the claws as a size category larger should yield something like 7 more damage on average, or 10-11 more if empowered. Which doesn't seem horrifically insane to -me- at level 18 considering the limitations of Claws of the Beast (if you use ANOTHER natural or manufactured weapon you can't make ANY claw attacks that round...so you get a total of only two attacks).

Of course, CW also allows for the insane Hulking Hurler build which is 100% legal by the RAW and makes for a character that can effectively destroy planets.

 

[xen_xheng]

I don't have the CW for reference, so I don't know the opportunity cost of going Warshaper. But using the claws as a size category larger should yield something like 7 more damage on average, or 10-11 more if empowered. Which doesn't seem horrifically insane to -me- at level 18 considering the limitations of Claws of the Beast (if you use ANOTHER natural or manufactured weapon you can't make ANY claw attacks that round...so you get a total of only two attacks).

Well, he can obtain the class at level 15; I suppose it's all right considering he has only 2 attacks; yet he counts with the rend ability gained by metamorphosing into a troll,wich is almost 2 attacks more.

The issue started when we compared the wizard's damage at level 18 (20d6 with 2 extra caster levels given by prestige) with the psychic warrior dealing an equivalent to 36d6+a lot with 2 touch attacks [(2 claws of 6d6)x1.5+ a lot + (rend 12d6)x1.5+a lot].

I suppose it's up to the level, yet the wizard's damage seems wimpy by comparison.

Which leads me to another question: how do you calculate the rend damage? The books says "equal to the damage of both claws plus 1.5 the strenght bonus". Suppose I use Power Attack 10, have Magic Fang (+5) and Strenght 30 (+10); then each claw deals 6d6x1.5+25.
Is the "damage of each claw" the total minus the strenght bonus?
That would deal 12d6x1.5+45 of rend in the example! a Total of 24d6x1.5 + 95!

Should I take only the base damage for the rend calculation?

I suppose I'm just trying to "balance" more this psychic warrior in particular. Maybe it's just overpowered and that's it.

When monsters have damage reduction, where does rend come in? Does damage reduction benefit against the damage dealt by rend?


..whoops, I suppose these are a lot of questions; maybe I got a bit off topic, yet it all started with the sizing problem ;