SKill Challenge Qs

[jeffhartsell]

Since a skill challenge is a social encounter, can action points be used? If so, how would they be used? A reroll?

Can secondary skills have easy DCs? Some of the examples in the DMG lead me to believe "yes".

I posted what I think will make good house rules in the HR forum.

General comments about a level 1 skill challenge we tried:
1. The players had fun, but ran out of momentum when the secondary "use once" skill checks ran out. Not enough players had primary skills.
2. A skill challenge needs more than 3 primary skills otherwise it is very hard since at least 2 people probably won't have a primary skill
3. Using a primary skill to grant +2/-2 without a success/failure is a good idea since it allows people to "opt out" but still impact the encounter
4. Allowing some form of "aid another" seems like a good idea
5. Even with power usage, there aren't enough ways for players to recover from a bad roll or impact rolls. A social encounter needs mechanics like those used in a combat to put the action in the hands of the players instead of 100% on the dice.
6. A player can pick a great use of a skill and get a +2 bonus and skill roll like crap. A mechanic is needed to recover from that failure in a heroic way to possibly make it a success.

 

[James McMurray]

Since a skill challenge is a social encounter, can action points be used? If so, how would they be used? A reroll?

I'd say they can be used as normal: to take an extra action. This might mean you're aiding someone else twice, or doubling up on your high skill to lower the number of rolls someone else makes (and risks failing at).

Can secondary skills have easy DCs? Some of the examples in the DMG lead me to believe "yes".

Yes.

1. The players had fun, but ran out of momentum when the secondary "use once" skill checks ran out. Not enough players had primary skills.

You're expected to devise a skill challenge that everyone can compete in, alhough this isn't always possible. If the party's fighter took nothing but combat worthy skills, he may just have to hang out and do nothing (expect possibly contemplate retraining when he levels).

2. A skill challenge needs more than 3 primary skills otherwise it is very hard since at least 2 people probably won't have a primary skill

One way to get around this is to let secondary skills open up a new primary skill. For example, a religion check while sneaking past zombies may open up Bluff at a lower DC. This gives other characters a chance at a new secondary skill to use, although if they don't have Bluff, that's still not going to matter much.

4. Allowing some form of "aid another" seems like a good idea

Definitely. Those DCs are high if the player has the skill trained, and often unreachable if he doesn't.

5. Even with power usage, there aren't enough ways for players to recover from a bad roll or impact rolls. A social encounter needs mechanics like those used in a combat to put the action in the hands of the players instead of 100% on the dice.

The action is wholly in the hands of the players, because they choose what skill they want to try to use. In combat, the enemies are also taking actions to hamper you. Also, a skill challenge should have the benefit of not ending the adventure if you fail. Things will be harder, but if you fail at a combat you're probably dead.

 

[Torg Smith]

If you plan to run skill challenges in your game you need to let the players know when they are building their characters. You should give them an idea of what skills are needed like you would let them know what classes are needed to play effectively in the game.

 

[James McMurray]

Or you could build the skill challenges to closer match the PCs. You still have some parity between the two, but people are playing the charaters they want, not the ones prescribed by the DM. I wouldn't do it always, because "should I retrain to get a social skill" is a question every nonsocial character should be asking himself, but if I were making a challenge I'd definitely make sure every character could contribute somehow, even if it was tangentially.

 

[Torg Smith]

Or you could build the skill challenges to closer match the PCs. You still have some parity between the two, but people are playing the charaters they want, not the ones prescribed by the DM. I wouldn't do it always, because "should I retrain to get a social skill" is a question every nonsocial character should be asking himself, but if I were making a challenge I'd definitely make sure every character could contribute somehow, even if it was tangentially.

I agree with this statement in the sense that you do not want to force a fighter with a low wisdom and charisma to have a skill that relies on those stats. You want to make sure that the skills in the challenges you pose reach a wide spectrum. As this is a new concept for DnD I think there will be a bunch of trial and error in the early stages.

 

[jeffhartsell]

The situation we ran into was that intimidate and athletics were secondary in the skill challenge. So once those were used once the fighter was stuck, and in fact other players used those skills. That is a learning process for the players. If you have other options, don't use up secondary skills.

In hindsight, and back to my previous point, having more primary skills available is important otherwise the challenge is harder than the rules would indicate.