D&D 3E/3.5 Skill Challenges in 3.5

[RefinedBean]

One of my DMs, who is heavily into house rules (a lot of his changes were eerily similar to what Paizo introduced later with Pathfinder RPG) is attempting to use 4E Skill Challenges in one of our 3.5 campaigns. He's attempting to modify the DCs to reflect 3.X skill progression, and so far it's worked out okay.

I was wondering if any of the knowledgeable people in this forum had an opinion on this, or even similar experiences attempting to convert the mechanic from 4E to 3.5? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

For my part, as a player, I'm quite happy about it, I really enjoy Skill Challenges and think it would add some life to a relatively dull skill system.

Also, if this should have been posted in 4E House Rules instead, a thousand apologies in advance!

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I have run three skill challenges in 3.x now, and each one has been a learning experience.

I pegged the DCs at CR + 16 for 'normal'. +/- 4 for hard/easy. This has had decent results so far.. which means at 6th level


The real 'problem' I have encountered so far may be my groups style more than anything else. The 4e skill system is much more favorable to players using something other than what they have maxed out on thier sheet. One player who has a fighter character isn't comforatable enough with the system to try anything other than intimidate.
My group did say that they liked the concept and think that, with more practice, it will become a good part of the game.

 

[RefinedBean]

I'm pretty sure that's the DCs my DM has been using as well.

We've also had problems dealing with the fact that 3.5 skill set is, well, kind of a mess. A beautiful mess, but a mess.

Mostly, my main argument against it is that any class that has more class skills AND more skill points (Rogue) has a better shot at being effective and scoring a success in a 3.5 skill challenge than other characters (Fighter).

 

[Kristian Serrano]

What are the differences between 4e Skill Challenges and Complex Skill Checks from Unearthed Arcana?

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Basically teamwork is encouraged and the skill options are expanded.

A complex skill check generally has one skill being used or is a series of specific skill checks. Generally a complex skill check is attempted by one character.

A 4e skill challenge is a group encounter that is resolved using skill checks instead of attack/damage mechanics.

An example is escaping from the guards. As a skill challenge, the DM determines how many successes are needed. The party might stick to the standby of endurance/athetic checks to try and out run the guards... but using the 4e mechanic they can also use Knowledge: local to find a shortcut, or try to stir up a crowd of people that might slow down the pursuit using diplomancy or bluff.. or bull through a crowd themselves using Initimidate.

Done right, lots of options open up and the encounter becomes a memorable part of the game.

 

[Kristian Serrano]

An example is escaping from the guards. As a skill challenge, the DM determines how many successes are needed. The party might stick to the standby of endurance/athetic checks to try and out run the guards... but using the 4e mechanic they can also use Knowledge: local to find a shortcut, or try to stir up a crowd of people that might slow down the pursuit using diplomancy or bluff.. or bull through a crowd themselves using Initimidate.

Done right, lots of options open up and the encounter becomes a memorable part of the game.

So Skill Challenges are just prestructured ways for the PCs to use multiple skills to resolve an encounter?

It sounds more like an idea rather than an actual mechanic. Either way, it's pretty cool, but I don't think it's anything new that 4e brings to the table that wasn't already done in 3.5 Then again, maybe I'm just misunderstanding the implementation.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

You are correct, its not 'new'... but its nice that the rulebook spells it out.

However, check out the 4e house rules forum for some serious discussion on the implementation of skill challenges. Stalker0 has posted two variants that work out much better. His 'Obsidian' version is the one I will be going with.

 

[slwoyach]

I don't really understand the whole "skill challenges" thing. Giving the players a DC for a skill, sometimes requiring multiple checks with different skills, isn't exactly a new concept. That's pretty much the way every campaign I've ever been in has done it, except now it has a shiny new name.

 

[Scurvy_Platypus]

People keep going on about it "not being new". And at the same time, there's other folks going, "That's so cool! How would I do that in D&D 3.x?"

Yeah, for some folks it's not new. Especially if you tend to play games other than D&D. If you play small press rpgs, then you're even further ahead of the curve.

But there's a fair chunk of people that play the game _by the book_. They've learned how to play D&D from playing 3.x, and if it's not in the book then they're not doing it.

Rather than going on about how it's not a new idea and you've been doing it for years, why not actually explain _how_ you do it? That's a lot more useful. Especially since this is the House Rules forum.

And to keep this post on topic...

What (if anything) are done about the skills? Something like Skill Challenges are groovy and all, but D&D's skill system is *bleh* in my opinion. A slimmed down version seems like it'd be easier to pull this off in than the 3.x default skill system. Unless you're a skill monkey (Rogue) most characters are going to only bother putting points into one or two skills, because otherwise it's just a waste of time and skill points from what I've seen.

 

[GlassEye]

I would like to see some concrete examples. I get the concept but would like to see a bit more in the implementation to help give me some ideas of how to use this. Also, I'm using Pathfinder so I've got a bit more concise skill list but I'm not sure how that system would affect the DC's. Suggestions?