Skill checks to cast spells?

[Hjorimir]

I was taking a look at some of the threads concerning A Primer to Practical Magic, which is inspired by the work of Jack Vance. Now, I should start by stating that I have never actually read anything by Vance and don't have a solid basis of information in regards to his creations.

Within the discussion it is mentioned they have rules for spell failures and successes:

The spell failure / success system relies on Spellcraft checks. (If one prefers, one could substitute concentration, but I liked the idea of actual arcane knowledge being necessary.) I imagined that Cugel could concentrate and focus his attention if necessary, but faltered at the level of intellectual virtuosity and precision required to actually cast such powerful spells as the forlorn encystment. Every spell has a potential "Dismal Failure" (backfire) result ranging from inconvenient to life threatening, (which are again optional), as well as the potential for "Illustrious Success", which is usually a minor enhancement on the level of some Metamagic feats. Advanced consideration of the potential consequences of casting a spell are reccomended for the tyro! The more academically "complete" spells may not be as efficacious, but are far less dangerous to cast.

My question is this: Have any of you created rules similar to this? I am interested in making magic a bit more unpredictable but can't see me spending 30 bucks on the book just for their rules on this.

If not, have any of you developed rules for casting spells that promotes a higher sense of mystery when it comes to magic? I am thinking more along the lines of making spells more powerful and more dangerous to cast.

I welcome any input or advice on this.

Thanks for reading.

 

[jstater]

Yes and no. I began with the notion of using a Spellcraft check for casting spells, but ran into problems with the system. I eventually decided to use a caster level check instead, i.e. 1d20 + caster level + relevant ability bonus. I decided on a DC 10 for 0-level spells, DC 15 for 1st through 3rd level spells, DC 20 for 4th through 6th level spells, and DC 25 for 7th through 9th level spells.

I also got rid of the spells/day concept, but retained the spells readied (from AU) or spells known. With each spell a character attempts to cast, the DC for future spells cast that day increases by +1. So, after casting three spells in a day, the DC to cast a fourth spell would be increased by +3.

After three spell failures, a character becomes fatigued. Three more failures leaves them exhausted, another three staggered. One additional failure leaves them unconscious. I also have some "calamities" for characters who miss their caster level checks by more than 10 points.

I've only just begun the campaign I'm using this rule in, but so far it has been successful. I implemented it because it didn't seem fair that fighters and rogues have to make attack rolls and skill checks to use their primary abilities, but spellcasters do not. You want to pick someone's pocket - make a skill check. You want to materialize a ball of fire and throw it at someone - just do it. Didn't seem right to me.

 

[Afrodyte]

sorry for length! divine casters

If not, have any of you developed rules for casting spells that promotes a higher sense of mystery when it comes to magic? I am thinking more along the lines of making spells more powerful and more dangerous to cast.

I knew those files I made for alternative d20 magic would come in handy. It's been a few months since I've visted them, and I have stuff for divine and arcane magic. I'll detail them in separate posts to avoid confusion.

At first, I simply set out to alter the classes to create a more unpredictable model of magic, but as you can see, it went beyond that.

CLERIC
Faith. Clerics have a Faith bonus equal to their level + their WIS modifier. Unlike arcane casters, who have more control over the spells they cast and the effects they wish to implement, divine casters depend upon other powers for their abilities.

To get a divine favor for the cleric, the player rolls 1d20 and adds the Faith bonus and other mitigating factors (such as fasting, bathing, devotional song, using a divine focus, sacrifice, etc) The player then tells the DM (acting as the “will of the higher power”) the result, which tells the maximum potency of the divine favor. The exact effect of the divine boon depends on the result, the domains of the higher power, and the wording of the cleric’s prayer. These things together express the will of the deity.

The target number for getting these favors depends on the spell's level, and it works exactly as the DCs for casting arcane spells, but this is only important for letting the DM know what is available to the caster. The DM would then narrate the effects of the divine caster's efforts. Whatever happens, the divine caster has no idea (though the player might) what her deity will grant. Deities tend to grant spells only from the domains in their portfolios. In lieu of deities (or as a means of describing a deity not listed in the PHB), clerics may choose aspects to devote themselves to (more on this later).

Example: Roger Rogue, a companion of Cletus Cleric (CLC 5, WIS mod +3), is on the verge of death. Cletus prays for Pelor to bestow his favor onto the fallen comrade and spare his life. The player rolls 1d20 and gets a result of 20 (including Faith bonus). Mechanically, this means that the DM, acting as the deity, may give the cleric a "divine favor" (aka, spell) of up to 3rd level from one of the domains associated with the deity or aspect. This is a drastic change from the PHB, for no automatic cure or inflict spells are granted unless Heal is one of the domains associated with the deity or aspect. Even for divine casters who do not worship a deity, the results of a "divine favor" is indicative of the power of her belief in her ideals. Such belief can sometimes work miracles if it is strong enough.

Devotion. Devotional activities such as fasting, ritual bathing, celibacy (or ritual sex acts), meditation, poverty, sacrifice, self-mutilation, and non-violence influence the Faith roll by adding a +2 circumstantial bonus that lasts for each day each activity is voluntarily participated in. Thus, a Buddhist monk who follows the tenets of his faith without deviance can have a +6 bonus to his faith roll (poverty, meditation, celibacy). If at any point during the day the cleric violates these temporary vows, she loses the bonus. When experiencing these things, the cleric must do so with a mind of utmost seriousness. Being hungry is not fasting. Not having sex is not celibacy. Daydreaming is not meditation. It is reasonable for a DM to ask for a Concentration check to see if the cleric can achieve and sustain the proper mental state.

Just because a cleric is pious does not mean that she will automatically gain the most favorable boon. Gods can be moody, especially when they give great benefits. If Pelor is angry, he may just give the cleric enough to keep her fallen friend from dying. Gods can also be vain (or very compassionate for the masochistic things the faithful do to themselves), and displays of devotion can move them to do more. Having noted that Roger is at -5 HP, the DM decides that Pelor wishes to reward Cletus’s piety as well as teach Roger about foolishly pursuing violence. Pelor, benevolent as he is, grants Cletus cure moderate wounds. Roger will live, and the soreness he feels for the next few days will give him plenty of time to be thankful for his life.

Marked. As stated earlier, gods can be tempermental. Most of them despise it when their favor is taken for granted. Many gods encourage their followers to be judicious with asking for divine favors. Those clerics who do not represent the god well are considered Marked. Marked clerics are in for a rough time of it, as higher powers specifically target him for punishment. Punishments range from embarassing (braying like an ass for a day) to dangerous (lightning striking the cleric from "nowhere"). Examples of activities that incur Marked points are: breaking a vow or taboo, using divine favor when mundane methods work just as well (like using cure spells when you have time to rest), and using divine favors to ends opposed by the deity or ideal. The only way for clerics to rid themselves of being marked is by devotional activities done in penance.

Other class abilities (DM's option)
In exchange for reduced combat effectiveness (BAB and HD as SOR or WIZ, no armor or shield proficiencies aside those granted by domain powers), DMs may consider giving one of the following abilities to clerics every 5 levels.

Apocrypha. By researching deep, esoteric lore, you have learned that your deity or ideals reach farther than you initially imagined. Whenever you pick this ability, you may choose another domain to associate with your deity, provided it does not create an alignment conflict. Prerequisites: Knowledge (religion) 8+ ranks.

Adept. A particular aspect of your deity or ideals resonates strongly with you, and you find it easier to gain divine favors from that aspect. With one domain from your deity's portfolio, you get a +2 bonus to faith when praying for boons.

Bonus feat. You may choose a bonus feat from the following, provided you meet the prerequisites: Extra turning, an item creation feat (prerequisites the same as for wizards), Skill focus (Knowledge (arcana, religion, or the planes), Spell Penetration, or Weapon Focus (deity's preferred weapon).

DRUID
Spells. The boons granted by a druid's affinity with nature manifest as spells. Druids cast nature spells from the druid spell list. A druid may prepare and cast any spells she knows. Unlike clerics, who have to pray for divine favors, druids cast spells spontaneously, almost like sorcerers. The casting bonus for a druid is equal to her level + her Wisdom modifier. The DC for casting a druid spell starts at 10 for 0th level spells and increases by 5 each level. To cast higher level spells with fewer chances for failure, druids may utilize the same tools available to wizards, sorcerers, and clerics. She may channel her power through a focus which works exactly like magic focus for sorcerers. In addition, she may take 10 or 20 to represent extra time and care being taken to ensure the spell works properly. Like a cleric, a druid may participate in devotional activities to add to her casting bonus. However, the devotional activities druids have are markedly different from those of clerics. While things like fasting, sacrifice, and self-mutilation are still employed, they are aimed at strengthening the bond between the druid and the natural world. Some druids, as a show of their commitment to nature, go for days without using any weapons or tools aside from those they make themselves. Others may refuse to eat anything aside from what they themselves have grown or found. More may vow to plant seeds or trees in a certain area or at a certain interval.

PALADIN
Faith. The power of a paladin's convictions enables her to work miracles. Like clerics, they gain a faith bonus dependent upon level and Wisdom, but instead of gaining a +1 bonus for each level, paladins start with a +1 bonus at 4th level, which increases to +2 at 7th, +3 at 10th, +4 at 13th, +5 at 15th, +6 at 17th, and +7 at 19th level. When a paladin prays to her deity (or to the forces of goodness, truth, honor, and justice), the powers that be respond by granting spells from the paladin's spell list (which includes remove disease spells as a 3rd level spell). In all other respects, faith works the same for paladins as it does for clerics.

Domains. As paragons of goodness, honor, and valor, paladins eventually gain access to divine powers that help them in embodying these ideals. At 11th level, paladins may use her faith bonus to invoke divine favors from one of the following domains: Good, Law, Protection, Strength, or War. At 14th level, she picks another domain. At 19th level, she gains her final domain. She gains none of the additional boons of domain powers. She can only pray for spells from them.

 

[Afrodyte]

sorry for length! arcane casters

SORCERER
Spells known. As sorcerers go through life and gain more experience, they discover new capabilities and develop old ones. At first level, sorcerers may use powers from the Universal school and from one additional school (usually Divination, Evocation, or Transmutation) using their full casting bonus. The absolute number of spells known follows the PHB. The spells a sorcerer knows must be one without any significant material components. In order to learn to cast a spell that has notable material components (marked with an M in the 3.5 PHB) costs the sorcerer XP depending upon the level of the spell. No spells below 2nd level have significant material components, so the XP cost goes like this: 500 XP for a 2nd level spell, 1000 XP for a 3rd level spell, 3000 X for a 4th level spell, 5000 XP for a 5th level spell, 7000 XP for a 6th level spell, 10000 XP for a 7th level spell, 12000 XP for an 8th level spell, and 15000 XP for a 9th level spell. The expense of learning spells this way comes from the fact that the spells with significant material components were originally designed by and for wizards, and sorcerers have a much harder time of it using their powers in their unique way to mimic spells normally cast in a more wizardly fashion.

Every 5 levels, sorcerers either develop powers from another school, get a +2 casting bonus to one school she already has (maximum +6), or a +3 bonus to casting a specific spell. So, a 10th level sorcerer who can cast from the Divination and Evocation schools may gain a +2 casting bonus for those schools or develop other abilities (say, in Transmutation). At 15th level, she may cast effects from yet another school or gain an additional +2 casting bonus to a school she is already familiar with.

Casting spells. Although sorcerers are limited in the number of powers available to them, the application of those powers is extremely flexible. Sorcerers need no spell components, but their selection of powers is more limited. To use a spell, simply roll 1d20 and add your casting bonus (level + CHA modifier) plus whatever other bonuses you gain to the roll vs. the final DC of the effect (starts at 10 for 0th level spells and increases by +5 for each spell level, up to DC 50 for 9th level spells). The result of the roll determines the maximum caster level at which the spell takes effect (not taking into account metamagic feats). Your effective caster level increases by +1 for every 5 increments your result is over the spell DC. This accounts for the fact that sorcerers can at times pull off effects far greater than their experience would dictate.

A sorcerer who simply wishes to use a power, without a particular effect in mind may do so, much like clerics praying for divine favors. You roll 1d20 + casting bonus as normal. If the result is below 15, nothing happens. Beyond that, the DM has full control over what happens when you cast. The effect may be more, less, or equally spectacular as you imagine.

Sorcerers can augment their casting bonus in several ways. The first is to use spell components as wizards do for a +2 competence bonus. The second is to channel mystical energy through a focus such as a gem, staff, emotional state, or drugs to gain a +5 circumstantial bonus when using (not just possessing) this focus. The third is intense concentration during the rounds prior to creating an effect. For each round spent focusing your mind, you gain a +1 circumstance bonus to the casting roll. The DM may call for a Concentration check in order to use this option or to augment it. Finally, you may expend your personal reserves to force an effect to take shape. For every 5 HP you expend (nonlethal damage), adjust your casting roll by +1. Adjust by +2 if the HP is in real damage. The damage only takes effect if your character successfully casts a spell.

Sorcerers cast spells as they had developed them. A SOR 2/WIZ 5 with the Armor power who casts mage armor does so as a sorcerer, with the competence bonus for using spell components, regardless of what is recorded in the spellbook. However, if that same sorcerer (not having a talent for evocation) were to cast lightning bolt, he casts as a wizard because that is how he learned the spell.

Overcast. Sorcerers can only process so much mystical energy before their minds and bodies give out. When a sorcerer casts a spell of the highest level available to her, she sustains nonlethal damage equal to the DC of the spell. On a successful Fortitude save (DC 15), this damage is halved. When casting powerful spells (7th+), this damage is lethal unless a successful Fortitude save is made, in which case the damage is nonlethal.

Talents. Talents represent a sorcerer's growing awareness of her capabilities. Sorcerers gain talents at 2nd, 5th, 10th, 13th, and 17th levels. The talents are:

Familiar. Same as PHB, but medium-sized familiars are possible as well. The only limitation is that its natural form is a medium-sized mundane animal. So, no unicorns or dragons or owlbears.

Magic focus. You use an object (perhaps a gem, an item of clothing, or drugs), situation (nudity, lunar cycles, planetary alignments, or time of day), or state of mind (joy, pain, anger) to help facilitate using your powers. Using this focus, you gain a +5 circumstance bonus to your casting check. Each time you take this talent, it applies to a new power.

Metamagic feat. You have access to bonus metamagic feats which make your powers more formidable. You can take any metamagic feat from the PHB, and this feat applies to the effects of a spell you know, determined when you choose the feat. Spell focus and Spell Penetration are naturally exceptions to this. For instance, Maximize Spell does not work on all your powers, just the one you choose when you take the feat. Using metamagic feats does not increase the DC of casting checks. Taking Silent Spell or Still Spell is redundant for sorcerers since they do not require components anyway.

WIZARD
Spells known. Wizards learn particular effects as spells, developing them from broader powers. A wizard begins play having spells copied in her spell book (or collection of scrolls, sacred tattoos, or what have you) as described in the PHB. Wizards gain new spells through research and practical application. Generally speaking, as a wizard gains levels, she is assumed to be learning how to cast new spells. A wizard learns two spells each level after the first, which are recorded in her spell book (or its equivalent). To gain more spells requires more research and development. To learn more spells, a wizard must have ranks in Spellcraft equal to twice the level of the spell (1 rank minimum for cantrips) and make a Spellcraft DC equal to the casting DC of the spell (determined by level as with sorcerers). If the wizard has Knowledge (arcana), she gets a +1 competence bonus for every five full ranks she has in that skill.

Casting spells. Wizards cast spells through rituals which use components (verbal, somatic, material). To cast these spells successfully requires precise gestures, speech, and combining just the right ingredients at just the right time. To cast a spell, roll 1d20 and add your casting bonus (level + INT modifier) plus whatever additional modifiers you have to the roll vs. the final DC of the effect. If you meet or exceed this DC, you cast the spell as intended. Due to the ritualistic nature of wizardry, wizards may take 10 to be sure to cast a spell properly, but this doubles the casting time.

Wizards can augment their casting bonus in several ways. As stated earlier, a wizard may take 10 to cast a spell. Wizards may take Magic Focus as a metamagic feat which applies to one school of magic each time this feat is chosen. When using a magic focus, wizards may channel mystical energy through an object such as a gem, staff, or wand to gain a +5 circumstantial bonus when using (not just possessing) it. The third is intense concentration during the rounds prior to creating an effect. For each round spent focusing your mind, you gain a +1 circumstance bonus to the casting roll. The spell takes effect the round after you finish concentrating. DMs may call for Concentration checks in order to use or augment this option.

The price of failure. When a wizard fails at casting a spell, things can get interesting. Although the magical energy involved in casting a spell is not used in the way the wizard intends, it still has to go somewhere before it dissipates. Possibilities include (DM's choice): the spell affects a different target (you or a party member if the target was an enemy; an enemy if the target was you or a party member), the spell has the reverse effect intended (heat becomes cold, light becomes dark, bless weapon becomes curse weapon, etc.), or the spell is weakened in some way (damage, duration, range, or area).

Spell familiarity. Wizards have three levels of spell familiarity: full reference spells, quick reference spells, and intimate knowledge spells.

Full reference spells require all a wizard's attention to cast correctly, for he is not as familiar with it as he is with his other spells. Full reference spells usually represent new spells, but they can also represent spells which a wizard has learned but does not frequently use. Casting a full reference spell adds an additional round to casting time because it is assumed that the wizard is diligently and intently following the ritual described in the book. All new spells count as full-reference spells for one week per spell level (minimum 3 days for cantrips), at which point they become quick-reference spells.

Quick reference spells are those which a wizard is more familiar with, requiring only a brief once-over before being able to cast it from memory over a short period of time, much like cramming for an exam. To study quick reference spells requires peace, quiet, and comfort to allow for proper concentration. The wizard's conditions need not be luxurious, but they must be free from overt distractions. Injury, exposure to inclement weather, malnutrition, inadequate sleep, and insufficient light prevent the concentration necessary to do this. A quick reference spell takes 15 minutes to review, with adjustments according to the wizard's mental alacrity. You subtract a number of minutes from your required study time equal to your Intelligence bonus. For each point of Intelligence penalty, add one minute of study time. Thus, a wizard with Intelligence 15 (+2 bonus) requires 13 minutes to study a spell. A wizard with Intelligence 8 (-1 penalty) needs 16 minutes. A wizard may cast as many spells as quick reference spells as he has studied beforehand. The maximum time a wizard can retain these spells in memory is equal to 1 + INT bonus hours. Thus, a wizard with 13 INT needs 14 minutes to memorize each spell, which she will remember for 2 hours. (As a strategic note, unless you are going on a casting marathon, it is advisable to only study spells for the same amount of time you can retain them. The wizard in the above example would do well to study only about two hours, which would give her 8 spells that will last her the next 2 hours).

Intimate knowledge spells are spells so deeply ingrained in a wizard's memory that he could not forget if he tried. Like quick reference spells, a wizard does not require his spell book to cast intimate knowledge spells. In fact, he never needs scrolls or spell books to cast intimate knowledge spells. This is a useful trick for wizards stranded somewhere without their books. To gain a spell as intimate level requires that the wizard studies the spell as a quick reference spell every day for a number of weeks equal to the spell's level (minimum 3 days for cantrips).

Specialization. Specialist wizards operate similar to how they do in the PHB, but instead of having the school specialization and forbidden schools, after designating a specialization, each spell has one of three designations: Advantaged, Neutral, and Disadvantaged. The school you choose to specialize in is Advantaged for you. When casting spells from that school, you gain a +5 competence bonus to your spellcasting checks for spells of that school. The schools you choose as your prohibited school become Disadvantaged for you, and you get a -5 penalty to your spellcasting checks for spells of that school. All others are Neutral spells, and they use the standard spellcasting bonus.

Familiar. At 1st level, wizards may have a familiar. It follows the same rules as the PHB, but medium-sized familiars are possible as well. The only limitation is that its natural form is a medium-sized mundane animal. So, no unicorns or dragons or owlbears. In lieu of a familiar, a wizard may take a metamagic or item creation feat. They already have Scribe Scroll.

Metamagic feats. At every 5 levels, wizards gain a metamagic feat. These work exactly as they do in the PHB, except Maximize Spell, which applies only to one school of spells (chosen when you select this feat). Using metamagic feats does not increase the DC for casting spells. In lieu of a metamagic feat, wizards may elect to take an item creation feat. Item creation feats have the Craft (item type) skill and the ability to cast arcane spells as prerequisites. The actual spells needed and the Craft DCs for making magic items varies according to what the wizard wants to do. Items must be crafted with at least masterwork quality in order to be enchanted with magical properties.