Skill Focusing

[FrankTrollman]

OK, Skill Focus is lame.

The Open Locks skill fits into the Disable Device Skill (the standard DC for Open Locks is enough higher than the DC for doing a Disable Device on a lock that you could just take the "simply bypassing" penalty and the "hurrying" penalty and have the same DC).

Knowledge: Undead fits into Knowledge: Religion.

And so on and so forth.

So I got to thinking, what if, instead of having a a blanket feat "Skill Focus" and having a bunch of stupid extra skills that were specializations of other broader skills, we had a series of feats that made you really good at an aspect of a Skill?

So, there could be a Feat for Disable Device called "Open Locks" - which would allow you to always be able to disable locks without damaging them, at full speed, without penalty.

So far, I have some feats for some skills, others need work:

Appraise:
"Antiques Master" (You always know the historical value of any item you appraise - like Legend Lore)
"Magic Sniffer" (You can make Appraise rolls to identify magic items fully - Like Analyze Dweomer).

Balance:
This skill should be removed, and made into a Tumble feat.

Bluff:
"Improved Feint" (already exists)
"Innuendo" (allows you to hide messages inside other messages)

Climb:
"Wall Running" (allows you to climb while leaving your hands free)

Concentration:
"Combat Casting" (already exists)
"Still Mind" (allows you to make Concentration checks instead of some Will saves.)

Craft:
"Magic Item Creation" (already exists)
"Forgery" (allows you to copy other works)

Decipher Script:

Diplomacy:

Disable Device:
"Open Locks" (as above)
"Disenchanting" (gives you a big bonus when using disable device to take down magical effects).

Disguise:

Escape Artist:

Forgery:
This skill is being made into a feat for Craft.

Gather Information:

Handle Animal:
"(Creature Type) Handler" (this feat already exists)

Heal:
"Magical Medicine" (allows you to cure magical damage and afflictions, such as Mummy Rot)

Hide:
This skill is being collapsed into Sneak.

Innuendo:
This skill is being made into a Bluff feat.

Intimidate:

Intuit Direction:
This skill is being made into a Survival feat.

Jump:
"Hover" (yes, I am totally serious)

Knowledge:
"Specialty Lore" (Pick something stupid - like Undead or Demons instead of something good - like Religion or the Planes. You get a +10 on your checks about whatever the heck your topic is)

Listen:

Move Silently:
This skill is being collapsed into Sneak.

Open Lock:
This skill is being made into a Disable Device feat.

Perform:
"Countersong" (This bardic ability should just be a feat that anyone can have)

Pick Pocket
This skill is being collapsed into Sleight of Hand.

Profession:

Read Lips:
This skill is being made into a Spot feat.

Ride:

Scry:
"Spellcraft" (this feat gives a big bonus when using scry checks to identify ongoing magical effects)

Search:

Sense Motive:

Sleight of Hand:
"Quickdraw" (this feat gives a big bonus when putting things into or taking things out of, your pockets and sheathes).

Sneak:
"Move Silently" (this gives a big bonus to your sneaking for purposes of being heard)
"Hide in Shadows" (this gives a big bonus to your sneaking for purposes of being spotted)

Speak Language:
"Polyglot" (this feat already exists)

Spellcraft:
This skill is being chopped up into Knowledge Arcana, Decipher Script, and Scry.

Spot:
"Read Lips" (You can know the words that come out of peoples' mouths just by seeing them)

Survival:
"Intuit Direction": (You can determine what directon things are from you - even on other planes)
"Track" (You only need to make tracking rolls every mile)

Swim:

Tumble:
"Balance" (You can make a tumble check to avoid being prone)

Use Magic Device:
"Reliable" (magic items only explode if you fail by 15)

-Frank

 

[Dirigible]

Knowledge: Undead fits into Knowledge: Religion

I admit, it's been a while since I've been to church, but I don't recall the priest standing up with a diagram entitled '10 ways to kill a zombie you always wanted to know, but were too afraid to find out' or 'Pointy wooden things ; Your friend, Vampire's foe'.

Unfortuantly

Apart from the fact you're system seems to be backsliding to 2nd Ed's proficiencies, it seems interesting. I think you need a little mroe thought about what can be a ficus and what can't (eg, if you make countersong a Perform focus, it kinda devalues that bard. as if you'd made sneak attack a focus of Move Silently, or cast arcane spells a focus of Spellcraft).

 

[FrankTrollman]

if you make countersong a Perform focus, it kinda devalues that bard.

Not at all. I intend to give Bards bonus Skill Focus Feats. Since they are the only class who actually has an incentive to take Perform Skill they'll be the only ones who always make the prereqs for Countersong.

Essentially, by moving some of the Bard's abilities into Skill Focus feats and then giving the Bard some bonus Skill Focus Feats I am increasing the customization of the class.

And I think that's a good thing. Despite all its talk about being a generalist and a dabbler, taking levels of Bard really is a "riding the rails" situation. Once you get on that track, you really have very little say in how you progress. It's almost as bad as the 3rd edition Monk.

-Frank

 

[Mordane76]

Context?

Are you using these in a realm with low-magic?

If so, then maybe... but otherwise, some of these abilities seem to step on the toes of magic-users (like the Disable Device -- Disenchanting, both of the Appraise abilities, Heal -- Magical Medicine, Jump -- Hover, and Polyglot).


Knowledge: Religion now covers undead in 3.5; it's already part of the rules.


Innuendo has been folded into Bluff as part of 3.5, IIRC.


Folding Move Silently and Hide into one skill I don't agree with -- too many eggs in one basket, and would give rogues more skill points to maneuver around.


Concentration -- Still Mind is probably a little over-the-top, too. At low levels, it's fairly even, but soon easily overtakes a standard Will save.


Again, in a world where magic was restricted to being outside the hands of the players, these might work very well.

 

[FrankTrollman]

Actually, the concept is to make non-magical abilities worth while. As things stand, there's just no reason to even bother with Jump. At best it's going to let you jump up and nail creatures 10 feet up. That's just not exciting when magic can get you there with a 2nd level spell (which in turn may as well be a cantrip by the time you can reliably jump high enough to hit creatures 10 feet off the ground).

As for Disenchanting - remember that Disable Device already does that. I'm just talking about a bonus towards that use of the skill, not a whole new power. You can already unravel a Force Cage (DC 32) or a Wall of Fire (DC 29), you've been able to do that for years. So far I haven't seen anyone complaining that wizards were "useless" because Rogues could take a few rounds to get past area damaging or hindering spell effects.

-Frank

 

[pyk]

Actually, the concept is to make non-magical abilities worth while. As things stand, there's just no reason to even bother with Jump. At best it's going to let you jump up and nail creatures 10 feet up. That's just not exciting when magic can get you there with a 2nd level spell (which in turn may as well be a cantrip by the time you can reliably jump high enough to hit creatures 10 feet off the ground).

As for Disenchanting - remember that Disable Device already does that. I'm just talking about a bonus towards that use of the skill, not a whole new power. You can already unravel a Force Cage (DC 32) or a Wall of Fire (DC 29), you've been able to do that for years. So far I haven't seen anyone complaining that wizards were "useless" because Rogues could take a few rounds to get past area damaging or hindering spell effects.

-Frank

I think Jump, for one, is one of those skills that goes both ways. There's no reason to put any points into Jump, if one does not put max points into Jump. And, not every fighting group will have a spellcaster who can cast those spells.

To fold Move Silently and Hide into the same skill, one also has then to fold Listen and Spot into the same skill. Otherwise it would give the person trying to find them double the chance. Track is a Feat (as it should be) that uses Survival, without Track, one then uses Search, and is less reliable. Having Track in Survival would then allow all characters to get Track easily, and then would make it less desirable.

Most, if not all, of the skills are already greatly usable, depending on the situation. Perhaps, in your campaigns, these situations do not show up, which is OK. But they do show up in others campaigns. The campaigns I have been in, anyway. I happen to find these skills useful, as do the other members of my group. In fact, in the current campaign, not one single skill does not have any points in it when all the players are added up.

 

[FrankTrollman]

To fold Move Silently and Hide into the same skill, one also has then to fold Listen and Spot into the same skill. Otherwise it would give the person trying to find them double the chance.

People looking for you already have a double chance.

Currently, you make a Move Silently roll and a Hide roll, and all of the enemies make Listen and Spot checks. If any of them detect you - the alarm goes off and your sneaking has failed.

Since the sneaking character usually has the advantage, the thing which is really going to tip the scales is a low roll by the sneaking character. With Hide and Move Silently as seperate skills, it essentially doubles the chance that the sneaking character is going to roll a 4. A high roll on hide essentially makes no difference if your move silently is low and vice versa.

Making Sneaking into a single skill makes things more reliable.

And that's why it's in Monte Cook's AU.

Most, if not all, of the skills are already greatly usable, depending on the situation.

Balance, for example, is handled by Tumble or Reflex saves. There's no real purpose in having that skill.

If the floor starts sliding into a pit, you make a Reflex Save and not a Balance check. Therefore that skill should just go away.

-Frank

 

[Beholder Bob]

In my view, profession and craft overlap overmuch, creating a disparity for players wishing to develop skills of non-dungeon value. A PC can take Craft: Pottery, Profession: Potter, and Knowledge: Pottery. Unfortunately, he would be unable to evaluate the value of a piece of pottery. This is a silly and arbitrary division. A blacksmith (craft) and blacksmith (profession) both make the same products - they are both blacksmiths (nails, horseshoes, etc). If a PC takes a craft (blacksmith), is he unable to make a living at it? If he took it as a profession, he can not create usable products for allies? I have removed craft and profession and replaced it with the skill below, vocation.

Vocation: Combines the skills Craft, Profession, and Knowledge - but only as they relate to themselves. 4 Ranks in the Vocation (Pottery) – allows the maker to craft items (craft), make a living at it (profession), and have general knowledge related to it (the area of knowledge). Unlike a normal knowledge skill, the knowledge available is more limited in scope (only information a potter would possibly have as it relates to his craft – not ancient lore of pottery methods or other obscure areas of expertise). If knowledge of pottery is taken as a separate skill, it allows access to obscure information on pottery, as well as receiving a synergy bonus of +2 from 5+ ranks in that vocation. In the same way, the skill Appraise receives a +2 synergy bonus when appraising pottery and is treated as if the PC in question had ranks in appraisal for purpose of accuracy of that appraisal in how it regards to pottery.

 

[FrankTrollman]

I think that Profession: "Anything which makes stuff", should not exist.

Craft: Blacksmithing should be instead of Profession: Blacksmith.

Profession skills only make sense for the purposes of service related professions. You couldn't have Craft: Butlering - but you could have Profession: Butler (or Profession: Servant).

That leaves open some nebulous areas with, for example: Cooking. Should that be a Profession (Chef) or a Craft (Food)?

I don't really know. But I do believe that things would be better if there was just an arbitrary list which made all of those choices so that there wasn't any overlap any more.

-Frank

 

[Beholder Bob]

I think that Profession: "Anything which makes stuff", should not exist.

Craft: Blacksmithing should be instead of Profession: Blacksmith.
....
-Frank

But a blacksmith does make something. He converts iron into useful tools, nails, horseshoes, etc. A blacksmith could make a mace (yes, I know weapon smith is a different skill, but a iron head stuck on the end of a wood rod is a primitive mace). A blacksmith certainly makes iron spikes....

Yep - its a mess, that is why I combined them. There are some vocations that make little or no product, as well as some that would be hard pressed to make a living - but that is a problem with the trade (vocation) you have taken, buyer beware.