UngeheuerLich
Legend
Why not?
I always wondered why you don´t do an athletics save, if you try to avoid a trap door.
I always wondered why you don´t do an athletics save, if you try to avoid a trap door.
The flaw in your logic is that actions initiated by a character are ability checks, not skill checks. And saves are now ability saves. While the difference between the two is a matter of action or reaction, they are otherwise the same thing. I say skills apply.
I understand how you're thinking about it, but IMHO it is a little dangerous to rely on the model (i.e. the artifact difference between a check and a saving throw) and the reality represented by such model. Because sometimes the model fall short...
For example, you cite "disbelief". I think that's an example of ambiguity of the model: how exactly do you "initiate" disbelieving? Is there really a difference between "active disbelieving" and "reactive disbelieving"? In the model yes, in reality not really.
Out-of-character (around the table) the difference may be real in the sense that maybe the DM asks you to roll so you can say that the player did not initiate, while another time the DM tells you nothing and the player asks "can I make a check to see if this is an illusion?". That means that whether it's a check or saving throw may depend on the DM even accidentally remembering or forgetting to call for a roll... In-character the two are the same thing.
Another problem, take a Listen check when there is a noise that can be heard (opposed to when choosing to listen to a door "in case there is something to hear" which is definitely "active"): this is a "passive" check or "reactive" check, it's definitely the DM who calls out for a check here since the players could have no idea. Should it still be a skill check then, or should it be a saving throw because it's reactive?
The flaw in your logic is that actions initiated by a character are ability checks, not skill checks. And saves are now ability saves. While the difference between the two is a matter of action or reaction, they are otherwise the same thing. I say skills apply.
That's not a flaw; that's sementics. I called them Skill Checks to differentiate them from Saves. Both are Ability Checks, as are Attack Rolls-- each is a different type of Ability Check. Skills don't impact Attack Rolls (even though some may want them to), so I see no reason why they should impact Saves, especially since Saves already get their own bonuses.
Y'know, mechanically speaking.
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Yeah. Of course it will. This is D&D and it does not and never has had a proper universal mechanic. It has always compartmentalized resolution, even if you always roll a d20+Mods. Until D&D takes that step towards mechanical unification, I think compartment-hopping should be kept to a minimum.