Skills As "Weapons"

[Argyle King]

HERO? GURPS?

Really, about the only innovation I'm seeing is applying these ideas to D&D. And knowing how much D&D players have loooooooved games like HERO and GURPS, I'm not sure why he's musing about these ideas.

Other than D&D, I also play GURPS.


Though, honestly, I've often been curious what would happen if I were to use the GURPS rules under a different name. Would slapping 'D&D' on some of the same concepts get a different reaction? While I do game with some people who have what I feel are legitimate gripes about the game, I also know a few people whom I believe have never actually played the game -yet still knock it. I wonder if they'd realize that they were playing a game they claimed to hate if they didn't recognize the name.

While I do enjoy D&D. I honestly believe a few of my friends mostly buy into the name, and they'd enjoy just about anything as long as it was labeled 'D&D.'

 

[I'm A Banana]

Without any siloing (and poor skill design), I'll spend my 8 skills at max ranks by buying longsword, spellcasting, and the rest in thief skills.

Because a fighter who buys multiple weapon skills is wasting points when he only uses one weapon most of the time.

It's a solveable problem as a designer, but anytime somebody thinks to take D&D into the realm of Skills based, it needs to be remembered.

Yeah, I don't see the need to get rid of classes in this model.

Currently, we have weapons based on classes. Fighters get certain weapons, Wizards get others, Clerics get a different set. You can expand with feats, but it's kind of diminishing returns (and gives up other feats) if you try to do it much. The "equipped skills" might be similar, where Fighters get one set, Clerics get another, Wizards get a third, and a character can take Feats to expand their list.

Say, Fighters get trained in Intimidate. A Wizard might be able to pick up Intimidate Training, too, but they'd have to invest a feat in it. Just like, currently, Fighters get trained in the Longsword, and a Wizard can pick up Longsword Proficiency by spending a feat.

This model seems, from my experience, to do a pretty good job of stopping everyone from picking up the most useful weapons and going from there. Classes are made to work on the skills they have (fighters get weapon powers; perhaps they would also get powers that happened off of an Intimidate check), and they can branch out into others, but the branching might not be the most useful (a fighter could pick up the Enchantment skill, which the Wizard gets, but they won't have many cool abilities that use it until they spend more feats...still, they could use it in a basic way).

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Man, maybe. The first is actually a Good Thing for me, since I don't like the binary nature of pass/fail skill checks. The second...well, I guess that'd require people to step out of their comfort zone.

I totally agree. The thing that's always been missing from social encounters, for me, is a tactical element like combat has. Roll a die, win or lose. Even 4e skill challenges boil down to "Roll a few dice, win or lose."

I just recently wrote a set of rules for 4e social combat. They're simple compared to combat rules, but more interesting than the traditional pass/fail way of handling social skills. It works basically like regular combat, in that the social combatants take turns attacking each other to remove Morale Points. But there are big differences, such as the Attitudes that protect combatants from certain social attacks. The idea is to introduce team tactics to social encounters, and reward players for training in more than just Insight.

I haven't play tested with my group yet -- I can't wait for my turn to DM to come up again! -- but I've been thinking about running a pbp play test. I don't know how much interest I could get; it would only be a stand-alone encounter with socially stated PCs.

 

[LostSoul]

I totally agree. The thing that's always been missing from social encounters, for me, is a tactical element like combat has. Roll a die, win or lose. Even 4e skill challenges boil down to "Roll a few dice, win or lose."

You could react to what the players have their characters say and do. That will add a tactical element to the skill challenge.

I haven't play tested with my group yet -- I can't wait for my turn to DM to come up again! -- but I've been thinking about running a pbp play test. I don't know how much interest I could get; it would only be a stand-alone encounter with socially stated PCs.

I'd give that a shot.

 

[P1NBACK]

Yes, I do think D&D should be more like FATE, why do you ask?

Please, for the love of Jesus, no.

Can't stand FATE.

 

[TwoSix]

Please, for the love of Jesus, no.

Can't stand FATE.

I wouldn't go with an Aspect-heavy game, but I think maybe 3-4 per character, that give Action Points if compelled, would be awesome.

 

[Janx]

Yeah, I don't see the need to get rid of classes in this model.

Currently, we have weapons based on classes. Fighters get certain weapons, Wizards get others, Clerics get a different set. You can expand with feats, but it's kind of diminishing returns (and gives up other feats) if you try to do it much. The "equipped skills" might be similar, where Fighters get one set, Clerics get another, Wizards get a third, and a character can take Feats to expand their list.
.

another way to do it, is to envision the class silos, when designing the skill rules. Such that they naturally support the silos, and discourage cross-class optimization.

Let's say each skill has a per rank SP cost. That way some skills are easier to get to max ranks.

If dagger = 1SP/rank, sword=3sp/rank, and spell casting =3sp/rank.

Somebody might think twice about trying to get both sword and spells up to max ranks. The idea being, to be a good fighter, you need to put most of your ranks in your chosen topic. If you try to split it up (multi-class), you will not be good at either, and while playable, won't dominate as the can-do-everything PC

I might suggest that HP, and AC somehow be turned into skills as well, just to encourage point spreading (give the figher enough Useful places to put his ranks, just like the wizard does NOT focus on those things, instead choosing magic)

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

I'd give that a shot.

Okay, you convinced me.

Social Combat Play Test

 

[[OMENRPG]Ben]

How can I participate? I think it looks great.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Whip up a character, and post it on my thread!