D&D 5E Skills from an old Legends & Lore article by Mike Mearls?

[Quickleaf]

With the Perception & Endurance question of whether they're treated as active or passive checks, I guess that depends on context. "I search for traps". "Make a Perception save." What's the difference between that and making a Perception check?

I also think a system like works better with narrower skills, "Climb" instead of "Athletics", etc.

Narrower skills are better for a ranked system like this because it's easier to narrate "exclusivity" with them?

If it's an easy sneak (say, nobody's on watch, but they might still hear you), you don't need to roll, you just sneak. If it's difficult (or risky, there's a guard!), I'll call for a check except not from the Rogue, with his Move Silently ability. If it's further complicated, I'd call for a check with Disadvantage (with the Rogue having to do a check as well, but without Disadvantage).

So let's say you determine the difficulty of a Stealth task is Novice. It's an auto-success for the Rogue trained in stealth, but everyone else not trained makes a check. What target number is used for that Stealth check?

And is it always the same or does it vary with a skill rank system? What I mean is, are DCs subjective to the character's skill level rather than the world? For the above example...the rogue doesn't need to check and auto-succeeds. For untrained characters, is the check always going to be DC 15? Or are there DC 12 Novice checks and DC 18 Novice checks? So, in effect, every task has both skill rank and numbered DC?

But this is also why I say there's too many Ranks. What's the difference between the Master and Grandmaster, exactly (etc.)? If you only have three Ranks as I previously suggested--Novice, Trained, and Master--it becomes a lot more straightforward:

• If it's plausible that someone who had no formal training could do it, it's Novice.
• If it's something a bit trickier that you would only expect those trained to be able to do it, it's Trained.
• If it's something quite extraordinary, that you would only expect the best of the best to be able to do, it's Master.

I tend to agree with this, but even then the breakdown is a bit murky for certain skills like Stealth or Streetwise (or whatever their equivalents are).

For example, what sorts of tasks would I put in these skill rank categories? And where would I draw the line between skill and advantage/disadvantage?

Stealth (Novice): Standing still in an area of heavy shadow or heavy cover/concealment.
Stealth (Trained): Moving slowly thru an area of heavy shadow or heavy cover/concealment.
Stealth (Master): Moving slowly thru an area of dim light or partial cover/concealment.

I've assumed that trained Stealth involves some movement as a baseline. I've also assumed that what differentiates masters is their ability to hide in dim light / partial cover or concealment. So a PC trained in Stralth could gain advantage by hiding in (a) pitch blackness or by (b) standing still; conversely, they'd be disadvantaged if they (a) tried to move their normal speed or (b) tried to hide in dim light or partial cover/concealment.

 

[Viking Bastard]

With the Perception & Endurance question of whether they're treated as active or passive checks, I guess that depends on context. "I search for traps". "Make a Perception save." What's the difference between that and making a Perception check?

None. But that's not a save, but a check (according to my previous definition). If you unknowingly walk into a trap, I may call for a Save, and if you succeed, I may narrate that as "You notice the trap a split-second before it triggers and dodge the enormous blade swinging across the room."

Again, I don't use Perception checks. If you want to search for traps, search for traps--tell me where you search and I'll tell you if you find a trap. If there is a trap, I probably hinted at it when I gave you the description of the room. Depending on how you search, your search may trigger the trap (or it may reveal it). Triggered a trap? Roll a save.

Narrower skills are better for a ranked system like this because it's easier to narrate "exclusivity" with them?

Yes. Although, I think a system where you're "trained" in broader skill-sets but only "master" more specialized skills could work well too. Maybe. Unsure. Needs mulling over.

So let's say you determine the difficulty of a Stealth task is Novice. It's an auto-success for the Rogue trained in stealth, but everyone else not trained makes a check. What target number is used for that Stealth check?

And is it always the same or does it vary with a skill rank system? What I mean is, are DCs subjective to the character's skill level rather than the world? For the above example...the rogue doesn't need to check and auto-succeeds. For untrained characters, is the check always going to be DC 15? Or are there DC 12 Novice checks and DC 18 Novice checks? So, in effect, every task has both skill rank and numbered DC?

No variable target numbers. It's always the same target number. Maybe different target numbers for class and cross-class skills, or for different classes, or something like that, but definitively cut out the 'difficulty' part out of DC.

I tend to agree with this, but even then the breakdown is a bit murky for certain skills like Stealth or Streetwise (or whatever their equivalents are).

For example, what sorts of tasks would I put in these skill rank categories? And where would I draw the line between skill and advantage/disadvantage?

Stealth (Novice): Standing still in an area of heavy shadow or heavy cover/concealment.
Stealth (Trained): Moving slowly thru an area of heavy shadow or heavy cover/concealment.
Stealth (Master): Moving slowly thru an area of dim light or partial cover/concealment.

I've assumed that trained Stealth involves some movement as a baseline. I've also assumed that what differentiates masters is their ability to hide in dim light / partial cover or concealment. So a PC trained in Stralth could gain advantage by hiding in (a) pitch blackness or by (b) standing still; conversely, they'd be disadvantaged if they (a) tried to move their normal speed or (b) tried to hide in dim light or partial cover/concealment.

I don't really think about it like that, exactly.

Stealth (Novice): Anyone can sneak. As long as there is no one actively looking around for people sneaking. The rogue could just waltz in, the rest need to check.
Stealth (Trained): There are guard patrols, etc. The rogue can sneak, but it will require a check. The rest have no chance, unless the rogue scouts ahead.
Stealth (Master): Fort Knox, baby!

Disadvantage: It's quite bright. Or the floors are covered in marbles. If you disturb the birds, it's gonna give you away. Etc. Complications!

 

[TerraDave]

Mearls addresses why they dropped autosuccess here:

http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20140210

Cook put a lot of emphasis on it, and they tried it different ways in the packets. It going away was something that showed me that the playtest was the real deal and not just some kind of window dressing.

 

[RangerWickett]

I'm doing a homebrew fantasy RPG that will work like so:

There are seventeen skills (Acrobatics, Animal Handling, Athletics, Deception, Insight, Intimidation, Medicine, Perception, Persuasion, Search, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Survival; Art/Craft -- various; Language -- various; Lore -- various; Profession -- various).

Lore groups are pretty broad, but still focused. Arcana, History, Law, Nature, Politics, Religion, Technology, Warfare, etc.

There are 6 skill ranks, and each rank requires an escalating number of skill points:

• 0 - Untrained
• 1 - Trained (1 point, takes about a week). For language this represents basic speaking ability.
• 2 - Proficient (+2 more, or 3 points total, takes about a month). For language, this is fluency. Any extra in language is just showing off.
• 3 - Expert (+3 more, or 6 points total, takes about a year)
• 4 - Master (+4 more, or 10 points total, takes 4 years)
• 5 - Paragon (normally unattainable)

There’d be a feat – Skill Prodigy – which improves your ranks in a skill by 1. You can only take it once per skill. Normally, though, you have to wait a long time between leveling up skills that are already very trained.

At character creation you get three stages of skill points. 10 points for childhood (no more than rank 2), 15 points for adolescence (no more than rank 3), and 20 points for adulthood (no more than rank 4). You have to spend all your points in each stage before you can get the rest. This basically forces you to pick up some diversity in talents, not min-max.

(I might adjust the number of skill points a bit if necessary.)

Whenever you attempt an action, the GM determines how hard it is. You still roll a d20+ability mod for a skill check to see how you do (unless there's no risk from failure and no time pressure). On a natural 1, you act as if you had 1 fewer rank. On a 10, you act as if had 1 more rank. On a 20 you act as if you had 2 more ranks. Most of the time the challenge is not "Do I roll well enough," but rather "Can I come up with some way to give myself a bonus?"

We deal with the aspect of each PC specializing and the rest of the party never worrying by a) enforcing some element of skill dispersion by releasing skill points in three silos, and b) modifying the conceit of some skill checks.

Are you worried that one guy with 5 ranks in Persuade will get all the enemies to become friends? Well Persuade can only nudge someone's opinions, not shift them entirely, at least in the short term. The Persuader might get you past dinky guards and into the throne room, but he's not going to convince the king to hand over the crown.