Skills That Should be Handy for an Adventurer...But Aren't in Actual Play.

[lukelightning]

The problem with sense motive is that it should be easier to lie than it is to detect lies. But as soon as one player says "I sense motive on the count" the rest of the party joins in with a dice-roll orgy of sense motive checks and one is bound to beat the bluff roll. And as soon as you say "the count seems like he's witholding something" or whatever they put him in the category of "enemy."

 

[frankthedm]

Or what if it's some evil guard in some Evil Temple of Evilness?

The said guard is not quite so legitimate of a guard then.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

The problem with sense motive is that it should be easier to lie than it is to detect lies. But as soon as one player says "I sense motive on the count" the rest of the party joins in with a dice-roll orgy of sense motive checks and one is bound to beat the bluff roll. And as soon as you say "the count seems like he's witholding something" or whatever they put him in the category of "enemy."

IIRC the DMG includes the concept of just using the best one or two skill scores in the party for encounter distance. We use a similar idea for some of these social skills. You with the low Sense Motive can ask for a roll, but will will never gain additional information unless you are using it in an exceptionally insightful way.

Of course, the count is withholding something. Duh. Only a fool would include him among his enemies for that reason alone.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I voted for about 15 skills.

Of all of them, surely Heal seems like something no self-reliant adventurer should be without, but I never see it used.

 

[Felon]

The problem with sense motive is that it should be easier to lie than it is to detect lies. But as soon as one player says "I sense motive on the count" the rest of the party joins in with a dice-roll orgy of sense motive checks and one is bound to beat the bluff roll. And as soon as you say "the count seems like he's witholding something" or whatever they put him in the category of "enemy."

Which is why Sense Motive is best rolled by the DM, not the players. They shouldn't know who rolled low and who rolled high. Maybe the guy with 0 ranks and a +0 Wis mod who thinks the count is witholding something rolled a 20, or he rolled a 1 and is way off-base.

 

[Sejs]

Appraise: It's something you sub-contract out to someone else to do.

Decipher Script: Generally also sub-contracted to someone else. Take a copy of what you need deciphered and find someone else to do it for you. Rarely ever needed.

Heal: Doesn't do enough to be worthwhile. Should be much more handy than it actually is.

Profession: Great for flavor, pretty much useless for mechanics. You'd think Profession would be the go-to skill for things related to that profession, but how often do you need to make Profession (Apothecary) rolls to find out what kind of poison the assassin used, or Profession (Scribe) checks to find out where those documents came from? At best, it gets sub-contracted as above.

Use Rope: Rarely sees use, and usually then only for setting someone's escape artist DC. I wish it could do more, but.. it's rope. And why don't Use Rope and Profession (Sailor) provide matching synergy bonuses? Dangit, they should.

Forgery: Get someone else to do the job. How often do you need a forged document? More to the point, how often do you need a forged document right now?

 

[Felon]

I wholly disagree with this premise. If there are any kind of "precepts of good dungeon design," they are that the dungeon should test the characters - materially, physically, and mentally with obstacles big and small, regardless of the makeup of the party. So there should be challenging cliffs to climb and rivers/lakes to swim. If the PCs don't have one amongst them who has spent points in swim or climb, then they aren't really fit to be adventurers.

Sounds all good and righteous, but in practice it amounts to an adventure failing because a challenge has to be overcome with a resource the players wind up not having. Any subsequent claim that it's the player's fault for not being "fit adventurers" truly means nothing because, as it is with most situations in the grown-up world, assigning blame isn't terribly important or useful. It's the end result that matters, and here that means ensuring that an adventure doesn't come to a screeching halt halfway into the session.

This used to happen a lot in older editions. One wizard-locked door could send the whole party packing.

 

[painandgreed]

Sounds all good and righteous, but in practice it amounts to an adventure failing because a challenge has to be overcome with a resource the players wind up not having. The assertion that it's the player's fault for not being "fit adventurers" truly means nothing because, as it is with most situations in the grown-up world, assigning blame isn't terribly important or useful. It's the end result that matters, and here that means ensuring that an adventure doesn't come to a screeching halt halfway into the session.

There are ways around having the adventure come to a screeching halt just because the players don't have an approriate skill but still use the skill in the adventure. You could have side areas that might require the skill so that the ability to use the skill provides a bonus but not does not provide a penatly. You can have multiple paths through your adventure so that having that skill is rewarded by an easier path. You can warn the characters ahead of time that the obstacle is present so that they may compensate. You can just make the adventure not vital to the campaign so that if it becomes impassable, they simply have to admit defeat and leave without any other consequence other that perhaps having to come back later.

 

[danzig138]

While you probably don't prepare all these spells, it's simple enought to have them on scrolls for when you need 'em.

Sure. Pretty useless though if no one in the group can use the scrolls. Sure there ae lots of things magic can do better. If someone is available to do the magic. That frequently isn't the case IME. If someone bothers to play a spellcaster, he's useless for quite a bit of the time, either having run out of spells, or having been beaten to a pulp. So even when magic can do it, it's better, IMO, to have a mundane backup.

 

[danzig138]

Of all of them, surely Heal seems like something no self-reliant adventurer should be without, but I never see it used.

IMG, Heal is one of the most often used skills. And I mean all my games, not just D&D. Doesn't matter if there is a magical/tech equivalent. I don't think my group would know what to do if they had to play a game without a Heal/Treat Injury/First Aid skill. Maybe I should do that to them sometime.