Skipping some encounters in pre-made adventures.

[Shin Okada]

Well, assume you are running some pre-made (published or online) adventures or campaigns. In some cases, PCs can choose to skip some of the encounters.

In 3.5e, there were not much problems.

If there are 24 encounters which meant to raise PC's level by 3, then you skip encounters No.3-10, PCs will have tough fights in encounter No.11 and following ones, because they are a level behind expected PC level for those encounters. But also, PCs will earn more XPs due to being a lower level character. So they will (if survived), eventually catch up with the expected PC level when fighting later encounters and the final showdown.

But in 4e, XPs of each encounters are fixed number. If you skip encounter No. 3-10, you will simply miss XPs for those 8 encounters and may fight the final showdown as PCs of lower level than expected.

Does that mean, players should not skip encounters in pre-made adventures? Or maybe DMs are encouraged to lower encounter level of later encounters?

If skipping encounters is simply a bad option meta-game-wise, I am not sure if that is a good thing. And, it is relatively fiddly to lower encounter level than to raise it.

 

[billd91]

Does that mean, players should not skip encounters in pre-made adventures? Or maybe DMs are encouraged to lower encounter level of later encounters?

If skipping encounters is simply a bad option meta-game-wise, I am not sure if that is a good thing. And, it is relatively fiddly to lower encounter level than to raise it.

The only problem I've every really had with skipping encounters is if there is something to the encounter necessary for ones later on - maybe you need the treasure or some gear the encounter has, maybe it's a question of weakening the BBEG at the end by taking out something that empowers him, whatever.

But I can see how in 3e/4e a character may lag behind design assumptions by missing encounters. I think it's one of the unfortunate side-effects of overdesigning the game's rewards. In 3e (and continuing into 4e), they spent so much effort figuring out some optimal number of encounters to have between levels that the game doesn't tolerate as much "slip" in actual use as 1e and 2e did. It's one of the weaknesses of the post-2e editions, if you ask me.

 

[Amaroq]

Our DM did this with some success, actually.

He decided to change from explicitly tracking experience points for all players to a fairly simple "Level up after every other session" mechanic .. and then he'd skip encounters in published works if he thought they were dull, didn't advance the plot, etc. It all worked out pretty well - in general he brought each of our sessions to a crescendo of tension, allowed us to win one 'boss' or 'lieutenant' fight at the end of the night, etc.

While I can see your concern, what we actually wound up with was the opposite: we never ran into trouble in terms of healing surges, ever, and we would usually be able to hold onto our dailies until the boss fight, which let us really go nova on the boss, and that resulted in some easy wins over putatively challenging encounters.

 

[Imban]

Some of the 4e designers have at least realized this and designed around it, if in one of the most boring ways possible - just making it so there are no skippable encounters in the entire module without active DM intervention.

Other than that? Yeah, you'll be behind, technically. I find that's what sidequests are for - my players have managed to skip a whole bunch of stuff in War of the Burning Sky, including essentially all of Chapter 4, but due to various sidequesting they're all still at the appropriate level.

 

[Starfox]

If there are 24 encounters which meant to raise PC's level by 3, then you skip encounters No.3-10, PCs will have tough fights in encounter No.11 and following ones, because they are a level behind expected PC level for those encounters. But also, PCs will earn more XPs due to being a lower level character. So they will (if survived), eventually catch up with the expected PC level when fighting later encounters and the final showdown

Actually, this is not true. The match works out the same in 3E and 4E. The reason is that the XP tables in 4E are made up differently than those in 3E. In 3E, xp was linear (1,000 x level), in 4E they are exponential. In both 3E and 4E, missing an encounter means you are strictly behind in xp, but that the level difference (probably only a small fraction of a level to begin with) will get smaller and smaller as the missed encounter gets older and older.

Also, both systems allow the DM to reward players for avoiding encounters - 4E more explicitly than 3E. Another nice feature of 4E here is that avoiding an encounter often involves a skill challenge - which can give just as much xp as actually fighting the encounter!

And yes, I am simplifying matter a bit because 4E xp tables are not evenly exponential. The conclusion should still be valid.

 

[Blackbrrd]

I would award my players xp for encounters skipped if it was because they avoided the whole ambush due to clever play etc, etc. If you just award xp if the players solve the problems the way you/module designers planned them you are not encouraging the type of play you probably want. The same goes for treasure placement etc.

 

[Shin Okada]

Actually, this is not true. The match works out the same in 3E and 4E. The reason is that the XP tables in 4E are made up differently than those in 3E. In 3E, xp was linear (1,000 x level), in 4E they are exponential. In both 3E and 4E, missing an encounter means you are strictly behind in xp, but that the level difference (probably only a small fraction of a level to begin with) will get smaller and smaller as the missed encounter gets older and older.

?? I can't get it.

Assume the adventure starts from L1 and PCs skip 1,000 XP worth of encounters.

Now, when they reach 2nd level, that 1,000 XP is only 1,000/2,000x100=50% to the next level in 3.Xe. But that is 1,000/1,250x100=80% to the next level in 4e.

When PCs reach to 10th-level, 1,000 XP is 10% to the next level in 3.Xe. But 18.18% in 4e.

Missed XPs punish PCs more in 4e than to be in 3e.

Also, in 3.5e (and 3.0e games using FR XP system), lower-level characters gain more XPs from same encounter. This does not happen in 4e.

 

[Orcus Porkus]

I've been DM'ing "Revenge of the Giants" where this was a problem too. The players skipped a lot of things, and I didn't force encounters on them.
In the end it worked out fine. The trick is to make all encounters a little harder, by adding a monster or so, and of course also add their XP. With a somewhat experienced and/or balanced party this is not a problem. It's actually a necessity anyway. You also need to watch out for magic items they find, and probably add more to the lot than given in the description.
Furthermore, I gave them 1/2 of the XP when they avoided encounters by the means of their wits. There are also Quest XP.
In the end it all turned out well. The group is now in the final chapter, and everybody is at level 17 where they should be.

 

[Fkewl]

Another idea (if not already given) is to add small Skill Challenges instead of encounters and give the XP that way.

The DM can add the treasure or story plots in those missed Encounters and still have a good challenging game.

The Healing Surges and Dailies loss can be part of the failures in the Skill Challenges before meeting M. Big Boss (less Nova's from the players).

 

[Zaran]

I will usually grant the XP they would recieve if they were anal and went back to other encounters after they completed the last fight. I figure there is no point in doing those encounters if they are just combat and are weaker than the last big fight. Basically, the PCs still did the encounters but did them off-camara. Usually those printed modules are made up in such a way that there is a "mini" boss battle in each section. If you granted the missed XP at the end of each such battle then won't be behind when they go to the next chapter. If your PCs are like mine, they will go over the entire area like a plague of locusts until they have all the loot they can find and doing little dinky fights after the climatic battle is ... well, anti-climatic. So just hit the EASY button then.

You can narrate to them the fight they did with those encounters if you wish, although I don't see the need. Just tell them what else was in the dungeon and how they cleared them out or drove them off.