Sleep spell....overpowered?

[LowSpine]

That with a certain build you can give an enemy -11 or more penalty to saves making it very unlikely that the enemy wakes up any time soon.

I've only seen one mechanic that adjusts saves and that is humans that get a +1. What rules have you found that can do that?

 

[william_nova]

That with a certain build you can give an enemy -11 or more penalty to saves making it very unlikely that the enemy wakes up any time soon.

Could you tell me how that build looks? I'm very math curious.

 

[Grazzt]

I've only seen one mechanic that adjusts saves and that is humans that get a +1.

I believe there are also a couple of monsters in the MM that modify the save (-1 or -2, for example) against certain effects.

 

[Derren]

It has not been "optimized" yet so its a simpls Wis stacking with Implement Mastery Orb

Once per encounter as a Free Action the Wizard can nominate one creature to suffer a saving throw penalty equal to their Wisdom modifier.

* Humans can start with a 20 Wisdom (+5)
* At 30th level characters can raise two stats by 8 (+4)
* Spell Focus gives a -2 save penalty
* Demigod ED gives +2 to Wis

In the end this ability gives a -12 to saves.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

It has not been "optimized" yet so its a simpls Wis stacking with Implement Mastery Orb

Once per encounter as a Free Action the Wizard can nominate one creature to suffer a saving throw penalty equal to their Wisdom modifier.

* Humans can start with a 20 Wisdom (+5)
* At 30th level characters can raise two stats by 8 (+4)
* Spell Focus gives a -2 save penalty
* Demigod ED gives +2 to Wis

In the end this ability gives a -12 to saves.

Not bad at all...still, requires you to be epic level...and max out your wisdom....which means you won't have much or any points left for your Int.

Which means, you can slow people for an entire encounter, but you'll almost never put them to sleep with the plus to hit you'll have.

 

[Derren]

You don't even loose that much int and together with Action Points (+ the human bonus for them) you can still hit high value targets (and of course the lesser trash) regulary. Also, for what do you have leaders to give you a bonus to hit?

 

[hong]

It has not been "optimized" yet so its a simpls Wis stacking with Implement Mastery Orb

Once per encounter as a Free Action the Wizard can nominate one creature to suffer a saving throw penalty equal to their Wisdom modifier.

* Humans can start with a 20 Wisdom (+5)
* At 30th level characters can raise two stats by 8 (+4)
* Spell Focus gives a -2 save penalty
* Demigod ED gives +2 to Wis

In the end this ability gives a -12 to saves.

Oh, well, I guess it's kinda broken when a demigod does it.

 

[Regicide]

Oh, well, I guess it's kinda broken when a demigod does it.

At level 1 it's -7 meaning a mere 20% chance to break out. Go go level 1 wizard minions!

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

How many wizards are going to have a 20 Wisdom at first level?

 

[Derren]

How many wizards are going to have a 20 Wisdom at first level?

Every wizard who wants to exploit Orb Mastery would have 20 Wis at level 1.
So the actual number will depend on how good this tactic is.