Sleep spell....overpowered?

[Derren]

I kinda find it funny optimizers are failing at it in 4th.

Look, you probably couldn't find these ideas till at least a month after playing 3.5. You need to relax and let natural talent flow through you.

How are they failing when they already find such build before the official release date?

 

[Ahglock]

How are they failing when they already find such build before the official release date?

Because optimizers phail due to being optimizers.

 

[Victoly]

Accidental post?

 

[frankthedm]

How are they failing when they already find such build before the official release date?

Because to the people who think the optimizers are failing, it looks like the wizard has to sacrifice too much character power in the effort of crimping that one critter's save, becoming non-optimized in the attempt to be optimized.

 

[phil500]

* Humans can start with a 20 Wisdom (+5)
* At 30th level characters can raise two stats by 8 (+4)
* Spell Focus gives a -2 save penalty
* Demigod ED gives +2 to Wis

The whole build is based on a mistake, aside from the fact that he is obv. talking about int not wis.

Only the spell focus actually affects the "50/50" saves. the other 3 you mention help it hit, which only slows them.

p279 of the PHB: "Modifiers: A saving throw normally doesn't include modifiers; its just a d20 roll. Some powers, feats or racial traits might modify a saving throw"

 

[PeterWeller]

How are they failing when they already find such build before the official release date?

It's a suboptimal build. You can F over one save an encounter, and in return, you become a crap mage.

 

[Regicide]

The whole build is based on a mistake, aside from the fact that he is obv. talking about int not wis.

Only the spell focus actually affects the "50/50" saves. the other 3 you mention help it hit, which only slows them.

p279 of the PHB: "Modifiers: A saving throw normally doesn't include modifiers; its just a d20 roll. Some powers, feats or racial traits might modify a saving throw"

Read implaments. Orb giives one creature per encounter penalty on saves equal to wis bonus. Which is why "controller" wizards boost their wis. Calling a boosted wis sub-optimal is ignorant.

Unless WotC fixes this, they won't be able to add any effect into the game that boosts WIS AT ALL, or give sleep to mobs with high WIS, or suddenly everyone becomes sleeping beauty.

 

[Mort_Q]

... they won't be able to add any effect into the game that boosts WIS AT ALL...

I can't say that I see that as a bad thing.

Regardless, it is my understanding is that there will be no direct boosting of stats in 4e.

 

[PeterWeller]

Read implaments. Orb giives one creature per encounter penalty on saves equal to wis bonus. Which is why "controller" wizards boost their wis. Calling a boosted wis sub-optimal is ignorant.

You're missing the point. If you want to fully exploit this ability, you need to spend resources that have better uses. To optimize this one ability, you need to sub-optimize all your others. It's not worth it.

Not to mention the fact that it effects one mob, and the ones you'll find alone have healthy bonuses to their saves. It's clearly not as broken as some people think.

 

[Victoly]

Peter: What you quoted was in response to phil500, not you.

I haven't read through things thoroughly yet, but based on this sleep scenario it really does seem like there should be some abilities which automatically end "save to end" effects.