D&D 5E Sleeping in armor

[Kaylos]

I was actually shocked just how nice well woven wool is when I bought a wool knee length suit coat. I had always associated wool with scratchy sweaters and army blankets. Well done wool has an incredibly supple and smooth texture. Even when thin, it worked exceptionally well at keeping me warm in -10 degree weather, -30 wind chills in Chicago when I was doing job interviews. Love that jacket. Being in the SCA and learning more and more about period fabrics, I am seriously starting to think that most modern clothes are really, really cheap crap comparatively. Real linen is such a nice comfortable breathing fabric I would wear every day if I could afford it. But when we go to buy fabric for our period clothes, the 10-15 dollars a yard is an ouch when it takes 4-5 yards to make one of my norman tunics. End up getting linen-look instead.

 

[Andor]

Being in the SCA and learning more and more about period fabrics, I am seriously starting to think that most modern clothes are really, really cheap crap comparatively.

They are, but they are also literally cheap in a way that would blow the mind of almost anyone in history. The house my grandfather grew up in has public tours today, but he still knew how to darn his own socks. I live in nowhere Florida and don't have a clue, because socks are cheap enough that it's not worth the hassle.

When you start with sheep, and all the intermediate steps have to be done by hand wool clothing is expensive as hell. (Sheer, Sort, Wash, Card, Spin, Weave, sew, tailor. all by hand. That's how many man hours?) Felting is easier, but still...

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Just throwing that out there, that sleeping on the ground isn't that bad. The bone structure of the body actually supports the body instead various muscles. The problem with sleeping on the ground isn't the sleeping on the ground (other than debris/roots poking at you), but being exposed to the elements.

It seemed relevant given the nature of the conversation.

We probably did it for millions of years...

When you start with sheep, and all the intermediate steps have to be done by hand wool clothing is expensive as hell. (Sheer, Sort, Wash, Card, Spin, Weave, sew, tailor. all by hand. That's how many man hours?) Felting is easier, but still...

My Mom makes us all (the whole family) socks out of wool. Sized perfectly for each person's feet, spun really thin. Great stuff. We always go to her to get them darned. She says "they don't come with a lifetime guarantee!" but they're soooo good.

 

[Mishihari Lord]

The key question for me, which I don't see addressed here, is "In medieval times, did soldiers and knights sleep in their armor?" I know we have some folks on the boards who could answer that. If they didn't then I would like to see a mechanic to encourage sleeping without. Otherwise, no.

 

[TheGamesCollective]

Surely it is good to sleep with your armour. Mostly for your back
I think they didn't sleep with armours in the medieval times. That would make them not rested for the next day...

 

[evileeyore]

The key question for me, which I don't see addressed here, is "In medieval times, did soldiers and knights sleep in their armor?" I know we have some folks on the boards who could answer that. If they didn't then I would like to see a mechanic to encourage sleeping without. Otherwise, no.

Eh...

Keep in mind most peasant soldiers had ill fitting "mass produced" armors. So sleeping in it would be terrible.

For knights or Lords in an army, they had better armors, so they'd be more likely to wear it.

The Roman Legionaries that had purchased their own armors and had them well fitted did. The lower ranks that had no armor didn't have to worry about it now did they? It was the middle ranks that had second hand armors that slept uncomfortably (there are references to this sort of stuff in Caesar's letters from his time in Gaul). It's also why they built walled camps, so the men off duty could sleep with less fear and greater comfort.

 

[Kobold Stew]

It was the middle ranks that had second hand armors that slept uncomfortably (there are references to this sort of stuff in Caesar's letters from his time in Gaul). It's also why they built walled camps, so the men off duty could sleep with less fear and greater comfort.

Do you have a precise reference to the Caesar passages? That's not something I recall.

I don't think anyone is saying it's not possible to sleep in armour (it is, then as now), the question is whether in game terms one gets the full benefits of sleep (a long rest) or not. While there are individuals who have slept in their armour, that to me doesn't really address the question.

After a day of active combat and adventuring is, surely, different. I know there are so tires of Henry I sleeping in armour in advance of a battle, but I know of nothing that suggests the restful benefits of sleeping in armour. Having followed the thread, I still feel the solution I'll adopt is the one I suggested earlier: you get the benefits of a short rest if you sleep in armour. Players who have saved their resources may take that, but those that want to recover hit points or spells (i.e. those that have been in combat) actually need the best sleep they can get for the next day of adventuring.

 

[Snapdragyn]

Now, if the fighter is sleeping in bed in a nice inn, and still claims to be in armor, the player is going to get a funny look from me and some questions about when exactly that stuff comes off. But it's not something that's going to come up all that often. (If it does come up often, the player will be quite justified in answering, "The armor stays on because every time we sleep at an inn, we get jumped by freakin' assassins!" Touche, hypothetical fighter player.)

Wait, I thought I was the only fighter in our party. o_0

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I was actually shocked just how nice well woven wool is when I bought a wool knee length suit coat. I had always associated wool with scratchy sweaters and army blankets. Well done wool has an incredibly supple and smooth texture. Even when thin, it worked exceptionally well at keeping me warm in -10 degree weather, -30 wind chills in Chicago when I was doing job interviews. Love that jacket. Being in the SCA and learning more and more about period fabrics, I am seriously starting to think that most modern clothes are really, really cheap crap comparatively. Real linen is such a nice comfortable breathing fabric I would wear every day if I could afford it. But when we go to buy fabric for our period clothes, the 10-15 dollars a yard is an ouch when it takes 4-5 yards to make one of my norman tunics. End up getting linen-look instead.

I once found a nice, inexpensive, 100% linen shirt at Target (might have been on a half off sale). It felt wonderful. I could wear it in warm weather or cool weather with equal comfort. Too bad it wore out and I haven't seen them carry those since.

 

[Kaylos]

Do you have a precise reference to the Caesar passages? That's not something I recall.

I don't think anyone is saying it's not possible to sleep in armour (it is, then as now), the question is whether in game terms one gets the full benefits of sleep (a long rest) or not. While there are individuals who have slept in their armour, that to me doesn't really address the question.

After a day of active combat and adventuring is, surely, different. I know there are so tires of Henry I sleeping in armour in advance of a battle, but I know of nothing that suggests the restful benefits of sleeping in armour. Having followed the thread, I still feel the solution I'll adopt is the one I suggested earlier: you get the benefits of a short rest if you sleep in armour. Players who have saved their resources may take that, but those that want to recover hit points or spells (i.e. those that have been in combat) actually need the best sleep they can get for the next day of adventuring.

Well, penalizing someone for something of that nature is very simulationist. Since simulation is generally about realism, those of us who have actually experienced sleeping in armor, sleeping in the elements in poor conditions, sleeping in incredibly unconfortable positions that had nothing to do with what I was wearing (though it didn't help), either from military or historic recreation, are trying to help you understand the real effects.

I think most of us feel that getting sleep (and rest from that sleep) itself is not generally an issue for someone who has adapted to the circumstances. However, we tend to agree that long term wear of armor can create problems if you never take it off to do maintenance and hygiene. Generally on campaign (as I did in Iraq regularly wearing 60-80 lbs of gear a day), it is not how comfortable you are while sleeping, but whether you get it or not, that really matters. Even then, the body can be pushed much farther than most realize when it is on high alert do to potential imminent danger to life and health. Also the elements and how you deal with them matter more than whether you sleep in armor or not.

Many of us feel that a penalty for heavy armor sleeping is just a fighter tax, that unfairly penalizes the fighter, without truly being simulation at all, since it doesn't match the real life experiences we have had. That being said, if you are going to penalize sleeping in heavy armor, you should penalize sleeping in ANY armor. Have you actually worn armor grade boiled leather? It is nothing like wearing supple leather clothing or even a heavy leather jacket for that matter. You might as well be wearing Plate in terms of comfort. A chainmail hauberk is much more comfortable to wear and lay down in due to flexibility than boiled leather is. How about Half-Plate medium armor? You still covered half in plate. If you insist on doing it regardless of our obviously anecdotal experience actually doing it, then it needs to be all armor.