I would not want to see an almost immune to damage monster in a monster manual, but I could imagine it as part of an adventure. There are plenty of fantasy and myths where the hero has to retreat and find a better weapon to kill a specific monster.
Slicing Wraiths and Ghosts w/ blades?
- Thread starter Labon
- Start date
S
Sunseeker
Guest
RE: special weaknesses...
Presuming that the party has the capacity to run away, and that there is a relativly uncomplicated manner in which to achieve the conditions or items necessary to defeat the ghost, then that's great.
If the ghost say, reduces movement speed, dazes, or stuns, can teleport, or locks the players in a room, then yeah, it's a bad idea. If the ghost is blocking "important route X" and the players have to backtrack several sessions worth of traveling, then it's a bad idea. Unless you made it abundantly clear that X path could not be crossed without X ghost-defeating-item, in which case, it's their own fault.
While "kryptonites" are cool for super-baddies, say, The Ghost King of the Haunted Keep, they are annoying and cumbersome for average mundane encounters. Bogging down encounters with swarm-like mechanics makes a game boring and most importantly, makes your players annoyed. If you intend to do this, I suggest a "ghost saying pack" similar to an adventurer's kit, that includes a small amount of whatever it takes to kill most mundane ghosts. However, once they've traveled to Far Away Kingdom, the ghosts are different, and they need a different pack.
Bogging down games, making encounters that lock up easily, repitious gameplay, these are things that should be avoided. No, I'm not saying make it easy, I'm saying that games are not about players defeating the GM or GMs defeating the players. Pitting GMs against players is just annoying, encounters should challenge players to use their in-game and IRL skills. Not simply lock players down because their opponents have some special weakness that's only found on some special island that grows from the hidden special tree on the unique and special day that nobody knows about.
Edit: From a mythos standpoint, ghosts are generally comprised of some substance to affect the material world(and be affected by it). Either they are posessing something or someone, or they are composed of some kind of ghostly material, ie: ectoplasm. When whatever is tethering them to the world is destroyed, be it the lamp they possessed, the golem they inhabit, or the ectoplasm they're made of, then they too are vanquised, or at least run off until they can re-posess something or generate new ectoplasm.
From a very logical standpoint, a true ghost would immedately posess something else or be as you suggest, completly unhittable, but able to materialize it's claws long enough to harm you. "true ghosts" like these don't exist for the sheer reason that they cannot be vanquised, and must be run away from(or killed by). On rare occassions, they can be "destroyed" though holy or unholy means, assuming your party lacks a holy/unholy character, this means you are facing an invincible foe. And for Generic Orc Ghost minion, this is simply an incredibly annoying event that usually only exists to allow GMs to laugh at their players.
Presuming that the party has the capacity to run away, and that there is a relativly uncomplicated manner in which to achieve the conditions or items necessary to defeat the ghost, then that's great.
If the ghost say, reduces movement speed, dazes, or stuns, can teleport, or locks the players in a room, then yeah, it's a bad idea. If the ghost is blocking "important route X" and the players have to backtrack several sessions worth of traveling, then it's a bad idea. Unless you made it abundantly clear that X path could not be crossed without X ghost-defeating-item, in which case, it's their own fault.
While "kryptonites" are cool for super-baddies, say, The Ghost King of the Haunted Keep, they are annoying and cumbersome for average mundane encounters. Bogging down encounters with swarm-like mechanics makes a game boring and most importantly, makes your players annoyed. If you intend to do this, I suggest a "ghost saying pack" similar to an adventurer's kit, that includes a small amount of whatever it takes to kill most mundane ghosts. However, once they've traveled to Far Away Kingdom, the ghosts are different, and they need a different pack.
Bogging down games, making encounters that lock up easily, repitious gameplay, these are things that should be avoided. No, I'm not saying make it easy, I'm saying that games are not about players defeating the GM or GMs defeating the players. Pitting GMs against players is just annoying, encounters should challenge players to use their in-game and IRL skills. Not simply lock players down because their opponents have some special weakness that's only found on some special island that grows from the hidden special tree on the unique and special day that nobody knows about.
Edit: From a mythos standpoint, ghosts are generally comprised of some substance to affect the material world(and be affected by it). Either they are posessing something or someone, or they are composed of some kind of ghostly material, ie: ectoplasm. When whatever is tethering them to the world is destroyed, be it the lamp they possessed, the golem they inhabit, or the ectoplasm they're made of, then they too are vanquised, or at least run off until they can re-posess something or generate new ectoplasm.
From a very logical standpoint, a true ghost would immedately posess something else or be as you suggest, completly unhittable, but able to materialize it's claws long enough to harm you. "true ghosts" like these don't exist for the sheer reason that they cannot be vanquised, and must be run away from(or killed by). On rare occassions, they can be "destroyed" though holy or unholy means, assuming your party lacks a holy/unholy character, this means you are facing an invincible foe. And for Generic Orc Ghost minion, this is simply an incredibly annoying event that usually only exists to allow GMs to laugh at their players.
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Sounds like an awesome quest to go on to see if you can find the special weakness.
hafrogman
Adventurer
*shrug* You always get into this kind of difficulty when defining things that don't exisit. Of course, if you think they can be hurt by magic, but not swords, it leaves the question of what exactly is being burned/dissolved by acid/etc. Even a ball of gas should be fanned away enough (1/2 damage) sword swings.
But it's probably easier to think of them as some kind of ectoplasm. Weapons pass through pretty easily, but they splatter goo everywhere on the way out, slowly chipping away at the ghost's mass. If the ghost's HP drops to zero it's been forcibly de-manifested.
You could even incorporate the other ideas presented here, allowing the ghost to reform eventually (the next night?) unless killed the right way/laid to rest through a quest/etc.
But it's probably easier to think of them as some kind of ectoplasm. Weapons pass through pretty easily, but they splatter goo everywhere on the way out, slowly chipping away at the ghost's mass. If the ghost's HP drops to zero it's been forcibly de-manifested.
You could even incorporate the other ideas presented here, allowing the ghost to reform eventually (the next night?) unless killed the right way/laid to rest through a quest/etc.
S
Sunseeker
Guest
Of course..BUT, these kinds of quests cannot be so tiresome as to to overshadow the original story of the game. Every game needs side-stories, but assuming that the single, mundane, weak, ghostly orc is all that stands in your way, such a quest should NOT be necessary. And certainly, in any setting where ghosts requireing special kryptonites are common, then the common folk will be in ready posession of the goods needed to defeat them.
Needing the special fruit from the special tree on the special night from the special island to defeat Ghost King the King Ghost(yes that's his name), is fine.
Imaro
Legend
Honestly I think this really depends on the type of campaign you are running. In a campaign where monsters are rare and mythical creatures... this type of thing may very well be appropriate and fitting to the campaign. In fact the campaign's "story"may very well be based around the hunting of particular beasts (similar to the first season of Supernatural.). I guess all I'm saying is that you can't really make a broad call on this type of thing... it is much more dependant on the campaign, as well as the desires of the DM and players, for some this may be fun instead of tiresome.
One of the new wraiths published recently, can't remember it may have been in the red box actually takes full damage from force effects. It also mercifully doesn't weaken the party either. I've always ignored the weakening part of many insubstantial creatures, or limited the monsters to only 1 or at most 2 per encounter.
