Slicing Wraiths and Ghosts w/ blades?

[Labon]

Have I missed anything in 4e about slicing undead ghosts, wraiths, etc with blades? I find it hard to "phantom" (sorry, I couldn't resist the pun).

 

[DracoSuave]

Have I missed anything in 4e about slicing undead ghosts, wraiths, etc with blades? I find it hard to "phantom" (sorry, I couldn't resist the pun).

If they can be affected by physical objects, there's no reason a blade could not affect them. They're not balls of gas, they're products of spiritual power given shape and form. Physics knowledge doth not apply.

 

[MatthewJHanson]

They typically have the "insubstantial" quality that means they take half damage from just about every attack. There is nothing for blades in particular.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

If by "hitting immaterial things without magic", yes.

Most wraiths and ghosts are incorporeal, which means they take half of any damage dealt to them, magical or not. An irritating number of them also weaken creatures they hit, which gets really irritating, as it effectively doubles their health.

Brad

 

[RangerWickett]

If I had ghosts in a campaign, I'd run the first encounter having the PCs be practically incapable of harming them. They'd have to learn what actually harms ghosts -- in Supernatural, it's salt; in my game, it might be weapons etched with prayers, or spells cast with blessed implements -- track some down as a mini-adventure, and then go save the day.

(And even then, these weapons still only deal half damage to the insubstantial spooks.)

For extra fun, mix things up every once in a while. Why would the ghost of an orc warlord obey the same metaphysical rules as the ghost of a human noble? Maybe orcs think that blood is sacred, so you can only hurt a ghost if your weapon is covered in blood (or if you're bloodied). Maybe ghost dragons can only be harmed by weapons either stolen from their hoard, or crafted from items once in their hoard. Perhaps a Dark Sun defiler wraith can be harmed if you're holding an unplanted seed in your mouth.

 

[The Human Target]

If I had ghosts in a campaign, I'd run the first encounter having the PCs be practically incapable of harming them. They'd have to learn what actually harms ghosts -- in Supernatural, it's salt; in my game, it might be weapons etched with prayers, or spells cast with blessed implements -- track some down as a mini-adventure, and then go save the day.

(And even then, these weapons still only deal half damage to the insubstantial spooks.)

For extra fun, mix things up every once in a while. Why would the ghost of an orc warlord obey the same metaphysical rules as the ghost of a human noble? Maybe orcs think that blood is sacred, so you can only hurt a ghost if your weapon is covered in blood (or if you're bloodied). Maybe ghost dragons can only be harmed by weapons either stolen from their hoard, or crafted from items once in their hoard. Perhaps a Dark Sun defiler wraith can be harmed if you're holding an unplanted seed in your mouth.

I like ideas like that for giving the PCs a bonus against a particular monster, but I don't think "this monster is immune to all attacks until..." has any place in 4E.

 

[the Jester]

I like ideas like that for giving the PCs a bonus against a particular monster, but I don't think "this monster is immune to all attacks until..." has any place in 4E.

Why not? Exception-based design, mang. If it serves the story, run with it.

 

[DracoSuave]

Why not? Exception-based design, mang. If it serves the story, run with it.

Cause 'exception-based design' is not a catch-all term for 'make unstoppable encounters.'

 

[Fredrik Svanberg]

It can work for ghosts since they are typically stationary, trapped in the location they are haunting. If the players are too stupid to realize that they can't win (right now), or too stubborn or proud to escape, then their characters deserve to die...

 

[P1NBACK]

Cause 'exception-based design' is not a catch-all term for 'make unstoppable encounters.'

What part of this statement:

They'd have to learn what actually harms ghosts -- in Supernatural, it's salt; in my game, it might be weapons etched with prayers, or spells cast with blessed implements -- track some down as a mini-adventure, and then go save the day.

Says anything about 'unstoppable encounters'?

It doesn't. The encounter is entirely "stoppable" with the right tools for the job. I love the idea, and I think it'd be much more fun than the grind-fest that comes about because of the ridiculous "insubstantial" property.

Not only that, but it gives characters with knowledge skills some time to shine.