Sling vs. Hand Crossbow?

[LowSpine]

If I was a rogue I would not use either.

Rogues get +1 on daggers to hit and they are prog +3 but only d4

I would use Shuriken because rogues up their damage from d4 to d6 and they have prof +3. They do not have a load time.

Also with Shuriken they fit better with some of their powers. Blinding Barrage for example. I can imagine a rogue with two hands full of Shuriken throwing them for a Blast 3 causing blinding. I suppose you could put loads of stones in a sling, but how do you fire loads and loads of quarrels from a crossbow.

I am a bit dissappointed with some of the powers not making sense, which worried me would happen when I read Feather Me Yon Oaf - but that actually made more sense than some of the powers I have seen that actually got in.

 

[Enverxis]

Thinking outside the box of mechanics; a sling would make a more obvious (and longer) noise when swung around before throwing, a Hand Crossbow would be nearly silent ?

 

[Magus Coeruleus]

If I was a rogue I would not use either.

Rogues get +1 on daggers to hit and they are prog +3 but only d4

I would use Shuriken because rogues up their damage from d4 to d6 and they have prof +3. They do not have a load time.

Also with Shuriken they fit better with some of their powers. Blinding Barrage for example. I can imagine a rogue with two hands full of Shuriken throwing them for a Blast 3 causing blinding. I suppose you could put loads of stones in a sling, but how do you fire loads and loads of quarrels from a crossbow.

True, it's +2 for sling/hand xbow (+2 prof), +3 for shuriken (+3 prof), +4 for dagger (+1 rogue, +3 prof). I hadn't thought about shuriken, forgetting that they count as light blades and are thus eligible for the pregen halfling rogue's at-will and daily powers just as the sling is.

So for sling vs. shuriken, damage is same, shuriken is 1 more to hit, but has shorter range. A dagger is already 5/10 while a shuriken isn't much greater (6/12). A sling is a significant increase in range (10/20). So it's +1 to hit vs. greater range. I assume that since the table says Shuriken (5) that the cost and weight apply to 5 shuriken, even though you use one per attack. Also, it's clear that shuriken are not ammunition and should thus be recoverable. Given that 1/2 lb gets you 5, that's a significant weight savings over hand xbow/sling and ammo. 5 is probably plenty for one encounter's worth, 10 for 1 lb and 2 gp if you want to use them the whole fight (kind of funny that 1 humble sling costs the same gold piece as five shuriken, or perhaps I underappreciate the craftsmanship of a good sling).

See, that seems an interesting choice (sling vs. shuriken) as compared with sling vs. hand xbow. I think for the pregen I'd prefer to add the sling because in most cases where the shuriken would work I'd rather just use daggers.

 

[Magus Coeruleus]

Thinking outside the box of mechanics; a sling would make a more obvious (and longer) noise when swung around before throwing, a Hand Crossbow would be nearly silent ?

I've no idea if it would be louder or more noticeable, but longer noise seems right. On the other hand, if you're thinking outside mechanics sling has the advantage that it can be folded and very easily stowed/hidden, and you could probably use random objects as ammo in a pinch with some penalty (for not being perfectly shaped) so that you don't even have to have a bunch of ammo on you, if you're searched for instance. So each can be more stealthy in its own way.

 

[Andor]

The sling really is an undervalued weapon. Remember David vs Goliath? The were also the generic peasant hunting weapon through much of europes history. Not up to bringing down a deer perhaps, but then.. neither is a hand crossbow. I have one of those btw and it's fun but it's not exactly the most fearsome weapon ever invented.

 

[mmadsen]

Um, there wasn't in 3e, either. Except the hand crossbow required a feat.

The exact opposite of reality, of course, where anyone could aim and shoot a crossbow with minimal training, but good slinging took lots practice.

 

[Surgoshan]

Slings can sling things other than standard ammunition?

Desperate for ammunition, Bodak the Excessively Sneaky rips off one of his own testicles, fits it to the sling, and fires!

The testicle hits the tarrasque in the forehead. The tarrasque is unharmed, but mildly disturbed.

 

[mmadsen]

Sling ammunition is heavier - 20 bullets for 5lb against 20 bolts for 2lb.

A sling bullet weighs a quarter-pound? That's a really big sling bullet, from what I've read:

Sling bullets, or glandes, were made of lead, and were usually cast in moulds. The flash from casting can sometimes be seen on excavated examples. Thousands of sling bullets have been found. A group of sling bullets from Corbridge on Hadrian's Wall shows signs of hammering. Interpretation of finds in archaeology is, of course, a problem. None of the Corbridge finds showed any signs of impact, so it is possible that these are not sling bullets. Most bullets approximate to a shape which is variously described as plum, almond, or bi-conical, depending on which archaeological report one is reading. The size of bullets varies remarkably, with 30-35mm being fairly typical. One collection of bullets from Windridge Farm, St. Albans has examples weighing from 28 to 78 grams. The heaviest from Vindolanda is 118g, and of the Corbridge examples, 142g has been recorded. The heaviest bullet from the Near East is 185g. A low to mid-range bullet from the Windridge Farm collection is probably the best indicator of a typical sling bullet. I wonder if the larger bullets might not be for staff slings or artillery.​

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Slings should also have as long or longer range than most bows.
But D&D has never done this.

Should proably have increased range and be a military ranged weapon.

 

[Xsjado]

I find it hard to believe a sling could hurl a projectile with lethal velocity as far as a good longbow. Or any kind of decent recurve for that matter.