Slow Changes (Just theoreterizin...)

[Scribble]

So I was looking at some of the changes in 4e... And thinking about things that have been said over the years...

In particular the "class roles" idea...

I've seen it as

Defender
Leader
Striker
Controller

(with maybe more as the years go on...)

Now I was thinking, do you think the next incarnation (5e) will start to (or fully) do away with the classes?

A natural evolution into a classless game (that many have called for over the years) that would be too drastic of a change, but ok if done slowly?

Like maybe in 5e, we'll only see the "roles." with various abilities linked to those roles...

Shrug... not really a concrete I know what's happening type of thing... Just wondering what other people dun thunk.

 

[Howndawg]

I strongly doubt it. One of the advantages to a class system is that it gives players an immediate concept they can grab hold of and say "Gee, I want to play that". They make it easy for new players to jump into the game. Which is one of the reasons D&D has been the #1 game for over 30 years.

Howndawg

 

[Jackelope King]

I wish they were going in this direction. I really do. But they won't. I wouldn't be surprised if the next version of Unearthed Arcana has rules for the three-class system (warrior, expert, mage) alongside the four-class system (leader, striker, defender, controller), and explains how something like talent trees could be divided among these meta-classes, but that's probably as far as it'll go.

 

[WayneLigon]

I'm not entirely sure they will do away with classes entirely but the concept of class might change significantly. They might well move to a very broad archetype system like in True20 or Unearthed Arcana. I could see them go mid-way to that, become much more generic: Warrior, Spellcaster, etc.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Certainly not under the current crop of designers, most if not all of whom are great proponents of class-based systems.

If anything, the codification of roles is a RECONFIRMATION of their support for one of the main points of a class-based system: encouraging, if not outright forcing, players to play characters with significant strengths and significant weaknesses so that they have to support each other in a mechanical sense.

 

[Doug McCrae]

If you did away with the classes, but kept the roles, wouldn't the roles now be the classes?

Four classes are certainly enough. After all, OD&D started with three - fighting man, magic-user and cleric.

 

[Scribble]

If you did away with the classes, but kept the roles, wouldn't the roles now be the classes?

Four classes are certainly enough. After all, OD&D started with three - fighting man, magic-user and cleric.

That's kind of what I was getting at for the next step...

Replace the classes with categories. Sure you can call them classes, but they wouldn't be as tight.

Like the warrior category would contain something like a talent tree for barbarian, maybe one for knight, ranger, etc...

After that maybe do away with the categories, and just have the talent trees. Maybe you would be able to select talemnts from other trees, but doing so would weaken you in other areas...

 

[Mercule]

Classes and levels are the final and most sacred of D&D cows, IMO.

 

[Simia Saturnalia]

Classes and levels are the final and most sacred of D&D cows, IMO.

Agreed. As on board as I am with 99% of the 4e changes (and I can always homebrew gods and house rule the advancement), the loss of classes and levels would kick the ball clean out of the D&D field.

Besides, what would GURPS nerds deride the game for then?*


* I kid, really. Great system.

 

[Philip]

If you did away with the classes, but kept the roles, wouldn't the roles now be the classes?

Certainly not, classes and roles are whole other kind of things. Classes are the trappings, the appearance of the characters. Appearance is what draws people to play something. Roles are the way the classes function in an adventure/party, and those are wholly separate from a the trappings.

Asking to do away with the trappings, is asking to make car commercials and present your car as utility, sports or leisure or something like that. Categories like that don't sell, even though everyone can agree that most cars are built to perform a certain function, but you sell *the trappings*.

Classes work, classes sell.