Sluething

[Iconik]

For session 27 of my ongoing campaign Collapse Under the Empire, I've decided to do something a little different. And I need your help.

First, a quick rundown of the immediate story. The party finds themselves walking through the Vestra Steppes on their way to the majestic city of Vestral. A shining beacon of hope amid the harsh deserts of Chyrna. Once in the city the party is ushered over to an emaciated, old woman that states she feels the power of their greatness and offers to do a reading. The reading proves her suspicions and tells them to seek out a Sister of Athun who has forseen their coming.

You see..the great city of Vestral has always been a monarchy of sorts. The same family has run Vestral for generations with relative success. Thirty years ago, with the help of some dastardly nobles that had been turned, a new family rose to power and ousted the ruling Imiri Family.

There's more but I don't want to bore you to death. So, the party is going to be tasked with finding the last surviving member of the Imiri family who was only 3 years old at the time. He grew up in the Rat District of Vestral, left the city when the new ruling family ordered the Rat District razed. Many were put into slavery. Imiri was 17 at the time and was forced into being a gladiator. He left the city as a gladiator and didn't return until 4 years later.

At this point the Rat District revolted and in the confusion the gladiators rose up and were able to escape. Imiri being one of them. Basically, Imiri has been living his life out as a poor person among the throng of faces of Vestral. A second culling was ordered and Imiri was captured once again and put to work in the Slough Mines outside of the city.

How do you guys handle things like this? I'd like the party to have fun investigating, asking questions, cross referencing stories, rumors and digging for information. What kind of skills would be great for this and how would you handle them?

Apologize for the long post.

 

[Goonalan]

My players in my new VTT Campaign (see sig) are returning to Fallcrest to do a little light investigating of their own, I'll not bore you with the details. I also want to introduce the guys to some of the cool places in the city and a few future patrons/villains/friendlies et al.

I therefore sat down and wrote out a step by step (a flowchart) guide to how the players would achieve their goal- find the bad guy (whatever). I then complicated it by adding in a few false trails etc until I had a twelve box flowchart.

I then decided upon NPCs (multiple) and/or puzzles/encounters that could be used to reveal the next stage of the investigation, so now I have a 12 step flow chart with multiple branching routes, and ideas for encounters, smaller skill challenges or NPC interactions that ultimately leads to the location of the bad guy (my example).

Then I personalised each, ie made a smaller Flowchart which (without railroading- hopefully) requires each player to undertake their own Skill Challenge to discover a portion of the clues- when all the players succeed and put their individual pots of info together then the location of the bad guy becomes apparent.

So from the initial 12 point flow chart I now have a tailored skill challenge for each player, each of which incorporates other mini challenges or combat encounters, and opportunities to meet new people and explore new places within the city.

So some examples-

Resolute, Male Human Brawler (a wild man), his sniffing around leads him to an Inn, in the basement of which cage fighters beat the living crap out of each other, he has to train (with a blacksmith) and finally win two cage fights to succeed at his skill challenge (which will give him (and the party) exactly one-sixth of the clues they need to discover the whereabout of the bad guy).

His challenge obviously involves seperate skill challenges- training, getting hired in the first place but also involves combat encounters like the fights, and other encounters in which all the PCs can get involved.

In short each part of the investigation has been constructed to make use of a single PCs strengths (and sometimes weaknesses).

One of the other PCs has to deliver a sermon, convert people to his faith; another involves the delivery of a mystery package (and other illegal activities), another a romance, another...

At the end of it all of the PCs will have met some people that will prove of great help in the future, made a few enemies, got a bit of experience (and money et al); and finally will have located the bad guy.

Lastly- while I have written out the expected pathway for each PC I have done so in pencil, I know the order I want the clues to be revealed- it doesn't really matter who does the uncovering, there's enough filler for each of the PCs, by which I mean they have to work to earn the next clue.

I did this because I have seen too many Skill Challenges in which gangs of PCs wander to six locations either fight someone/thing, or undertake some sort of skill challenge, get next tidbit and head off- and it all seems to work in a linear fashion.

In mine PCs can learn the 11th clue (as it were) first, they still need the ten before and the one after for it all to make sense. And for each clue (by clue I just mean piece of information) they need to do a lot more than chat to one NPC, or beat down bad guy X.

Hope that helps.

 

[Iconik]

I actually started out doing a flowchart. Well, I'm still doing it. It's just getting extremely long. We're talking 5 pages typed. I love your idea of giving out individual nuggets to each player.

My "false trails" I think are going to be road blocks. If Imiiri is in the Slough Mines, how do you get in there? The mines are owned by a vicious noble named Rivik. You won't be able to just waltz up and walk in. The party will also need the help of a local assassins group working behind the scenes trying to restore justice in Vestral. You can't just walk up to them either. You'll have to find a way to get them out in the open.

I love your ideas, Goon. Think I may run with some of them. Appreciate it. A lot.

As far as skill challenges...what are we looking at here. Obviously, it's going to be an RP heavy couple sessions. Bluff, Diplomacy, Insight, etc.

 

[Goonalan]

I think what helped me was the first time round it started to look like a huge flowchart, and all of a sudden I didn't like that- so I narrowed it down to a dozen things the PCs had to learn to get to the bad guy.

Then I provided alternatives for each point on the flowchart, I don't want to do too many details here as my players sometimes visit but as an example-

PC A completes social skill challenge and learns that NPC B is up to no good.

PC B completes burglary skill challenge and discovers that NPC B owes money to NPC C.

PC C Completes physical skill challenge and learns that they guy he is fighting is NPC B and is being backed by NPC C.

I also planned the challenge to take at least five days investigation, and floated in some timed events as they get closer.

So when I looked at my flowchart I realised that the opening entries were about PCs getting to know people, so the first day is about just that- lots of meet and greet which also allows the players to sell their treasure from their last adventure.

At some point in day one each of the PCs finds someone they can trust enough to ask their opening questions 'where is...', now each PC has a patron/friend (although they may not all turn out to be friends) or contact. That contact isn't going to tell the PC the answer, so using Resolute from previous...

'You wanna know about X do ya? Well, I'll tell you what- you're a big guy, looks like you could handle yourself [points to the fighting ring], fancy a crack at the title champ?'

Now I already know that the player is going to love this in advance, it's in his backstory.

So the guy sends Resolute to work out with the Smith for a day- cue Rocky Music and Skill Challenge involving shifting pig-iron, hammering etc. Failures and he loses Healing Surges (why not). Finally he gets done with his work at the gym/forge- the guy who runs the forge does however know something about his opponent (like who he is- NPC B above).

Next stage of the training is to go and prove himself with some actual slaying, cue slighty bent watch man that has a bit of undercover work- a local gang (whatever) that need straightening out, it's not all skill challenges. The combat encounter can involve all PCs, or just Resolute- that's what Minions are for. At the end of it the guardsamn doesn't tell him anything but a note he finds in the gangs HQ, or beats out of an opponent- well that fits the puzzle.

And remember the Skill Challenges are tailored to each PC, so there are various challenges-

Research at the guild, town hall, temple, records office or wherever Arcane, History, Religion, Endurance (long hours) and a few social skills to get help etc.

Physical Training- Endurance, Athletics, Acrobatics, Strength Checks, Con Checks, actual To Hit rolls. (Don't just use skill checks, if you have a fighter with a hammer in his hand and a bunch of red hot metal that needs to be a spear blade- get them to roll damage, impose time limits). And if they fail, it requires more checks to convince NPC to give them another go.

Social Challenge- Diplomacy, Bluff, Insight etc.

Breaking & Entering Skill Challenge- Stealth, Thievery, Acrobatics, Athletics, Endurance, Bluff. etc.

In the challenge I've cooked up then as well as the Skill Challenge there are at least combat encounters each day (that involve all the PCs), some PCs have a few solo affairs also.

So back to Resolute, in one day he could-

6-12 AM training in Forge (Skill Challenge Physical)) for 6 hours.

12-1 PM Meeting at Inn with other PCs to convince NPC C to... (Skill Challenge- Social, lead by a different PC)

1-3 PM With other PCs investigate a broken open Tomb in the town Catacombs (Combat).

3-5 PM Help another PC break into a shop (Skill Challenge- Physical).

5-7 PM Meet with other PCs to gather clues.

7-8 PM Meet (with all PCs) at Inn for drinking and gambling with NPC D- they've all had invites delivered to them during the day- strange, they don't even know who NPC D is (Skill Challenge (maybe) but more likely Mini-Game with Cards and Gambling).

8-10 PM Help another PC smuggle item X into city and to drop off point *(Skill Challenge maybe with a little Combat).

10-12 PM Quiet drink, except another NPC is attacked by... (Combat)

12 PM Resolute in Cage Fight (One-on-one mini-game with Combat), while other PCs bet on the outcome.

Again, be creative, so I have a Romance Skill Challenge (which initially plays out over the five or so days), one of the PCs working as a Rat Catcher (killer) Challenge and associated combat, (nervous) Holy dude delivering a Sermon (challenge, with audience arriving/leaving to indicate success) & getting X number of converts, a Smuggling operation with challenge and combat, Wizard using his alchemy and rituals to cure NPC- with skill challenge and if things go badly- Wizard vs Imp, Cage Fighting (of course), Joining the Guild challenge, one of the PCs discovering things about his parents, Burglary Skill Challenge (with possible combat) and all manner of other stuff.

Basically I intro 20 or so NPC, a mix of good guys and bad, play through some pretty simple skill challenges (particularly the solo ones), when I say simple I mean by design. Have a bunch of consequences at the ready should PCs fail badly. Play out a bunch of combats- with two or three delve style adventures thrown in... until finally it all comes together and the guy they are looking for is...

And off they go.

The other bonus is en route I also feed them tidbits about what's coming next adventure wise, and what's happening in the land- the big picture.

Hopefully you can see this in action in my Sig Commentary when we get out of HS1, which shouldn't be too long from now.

Goonalan

 

[Iconik]

Great stuff. Once again.

Also, I've been going through a lot of the stuff in your sig. Fun reads.

 

[Goonalan]

Just a note in my previous entry I predicted two PC deaths with my dice roll, instead I came close to killing the same PC twice- but, alas, no cigar.

Cheers Goonalan

 

[Iconik]

I can't bring myself to PK. Unless they do something completely dumb. I'm there to watch characters and stories grow.

Of course, the threat of death looms nigh. Gotta keep them PCs on their toes!

 

[Goonalan]

I can't bring myself to PK. Unless they do something completely dumb. I'm there to watch characters and stories grow.

Of course, the threat of death looms nigh. Gotta keep them PCs on their toes!

I've done it once this year (I think), and that was just how the dice rolled- the players loved it!

They were wow- let's get some other guys together because we're going back to kick their arses.

It really motivated them to try harder, and nastier.

To be honest tonight was the sixth session back with my VTT gang, and the first time any of the PCs (I think) had been in negative numbers. At one point one player was dying, three on single digit HPs, and one other bloodied (11 HP); the other guy was fine however. The Pacifist Cleric of Pelor is a real Healing powerhouse however, I have to really go at them to get a bite.

Cheers Goonalan.

 

[Iconik]

Yeah I know the feeling.

By the way...tonight went well. They ran into a few problems with following leads. I don't know how. I gave leads to them on a silver platter. One player in particular was over analyzing and trying to be the hero. He kind of took over the table. Once I put a stop to that the rest of the players took charge and things got really interesting.

No fights tonight. Purely RP. Thanks for all your advice earlier.

 

[bbjore]

A bit late to the party but I just noticed the thread. One of the things that I learned trying to do a mystery style campaign, which is very well summarized, and explained by The Alexandrian in his blog (The Alexandrian - Misc Creations) is that to quote the blog, "your players are not Sherlock Holmes." You really do have to beat your player's over the head with clues for them to remember them, otherwise the clues just get lost in the mad grab for loot, fame, and whatever story each player is trying to tell with their character on their own.

The other thing is you have to make clues important, find ways to highlight that they are important. The easiest way for a clue to be lost in the wayside is for it to just be part of the general scene description, villain monologue, or as part of a long list of loot they've found. Player's think you just make that extra stuff up on the fly to add to the "roleplaying experience". There's many ways to do this, but you have to make sure it is clear to your players that each clue is in fact a clue and important, and not just your colorful description of what so and so is wearing or the architecture of some imaginary building that they only view as a place to kill monsters and find treasure.

I know you've already started the adventure, but you seem to really like the sleuthing aspect of the story, and the above might help you if you decide to do it again.