OGL Sly Flourish is ANGRY


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Staffan

Legend
Yet every one of these things I read or watch (I don't watch many) start from the assumption that WOTC is going to shut everyone else down, that anything they say is a lie. Proof that everything they say is a lie? We just told you it was a lie!
The original post on D&D Beyond in response to rumors before the holidays lied to us. It claimed the OGL was intended to "allow the D&D community’s independent creators to build and play and grow the game we all love—without allowing things like third-parties to mint D&D NFTs and large businesses to exploit our intellectual property."

Sure, NFTs were not imagined by Dancey in 2000. But other than NFTs being generally horrible, I don't see how you could use them with the OGL anyway, since the OGL relies on copying while NFTs are an attempt to limit copying. And if you were going to do a D&D-based NFT, it would not be of a rules element of the kind you have in the SRD, it'd be of something in a setting, like a bored Elminster or something. And as for the second point: yes, allowing other businesses to "exploit" your intellectual property WAS the point.

It also talks about the OGL as if it is something D&D-exclusive. It's not. The OGL was always intended to be used for a variety of games, and plenty of games that have nothing to do with D&D have used it to establish regimens for third-party creations.

It then goes on to say that the OGL is only intended for "material created for use in or as TTRPGs, and those materials are only ever permitted as printed media or static electronic files." That is a whole lot of bull. The original authors of the OGL always said it could be used for whatever you felt appropriate.

So after that, you might excuse people for not giving Wizards the benefit of doubt if their statements stretch the truth.

It's impossible to know what the real impact of the OGL 2.0 would be because the rhetoric feels so over the top. But saying that I think the rhetoric is over the top, that WOTC is not attempting to "deauthorize third party publishers ability to write [product] for D&D" based on what they've said and released, is not the same as saying that there are no concerns. It's trying to understand a balance that isn't reflected in virtually everything being published.
Yes, they are. Even in the leaked revised version, they still maintain the right to revise it at any time, and no-one in their right mind would agree to a deal like that. That is the same as denying 3PP the ability to write material.
 

Oofta

Legend
It sounds like you have your heart set on winning the aforementioned competition. I hope winning the competition is worth it. 🤷‍♂️

What competition? I'm trying to have a reasoned conversation and explain why I find statements videos like this exaggerated and to me they do not add anything.

I'm just pointing out the facts as we know them
  • WOTC believes it can revoke the OGL 1.0a. Whether they can or not (if an OGL is even needed) is uncertain.
    • That means that if they truly wanted to shut down 3PP, they could have simply revoked the OGL 1.0a without providing an alternative.
  • They wanted to replace 1.0a with OGL 1.1 which amongst other things asked for royalties. You can't get royalties from companies that don't publish anything.
  • There was tremendous backlash against an inexplicable error in the Spelljammer book with the hadozee. One of the goals of the anniversary edition (parts of which we've already seen with MotM) is to clean some of that stuff up. However, some people have complained that it just pushes D&D to being bland and generic.
  • We haven't seen 2.0 yet, but we know you will be able to use the 5E SRD, they've clarified that WOTC doesn't own your stuff but ask that you don't sue if they make something similar. Sharing stuff is probably similar to 1.0a, but I'm not sure we have the details yet. They've stated that they will only ask for change if the material is objectionable.
  • They retain the right to change the OGL in the future. Which, if they can revoke the OGL 1.0a, then they can revoke any new license as well.
What I also believe to be true
  • HASBRO f***d up big time. This was a major unforced error on their part
  • They may well have been concerned about the Hadozee mistake could happen again, but worse. While it's true that you can't put the label "D&D" on OGL 1.0a licensed material, many people would not care. For them it's used to play D&D, it's labeled "5E", it's sold next to and as a supplement to D&D, it is D&D. The brand can be harmed by other companies because they are associated with D&D.
  • They may be trying to limit what VTTs and character creation software can do without negotiating a separate specific contract.
  • HASBRO is a corporation. Like virtually all corporations they don't have my personal enjoyment or life experiences in mind when they make decisions.
 


  • They may well have been concerned about the Hadozee mistake could happen again, but worse. While it's true that you can't put the label "D&D" on OGL 1.0a licensed material, many people would not care. For them it's used to play D&D, it's labeled "5E", it's sold next to and as a supplement to D&D, it is D&D. The brand can be harmed by other companies because they are associated with D&D.
You're not wrong, but that's the price for being the market leader like WotC is with D&D. People will confuse similar products for yours because they know your name. Growing up in the 80s, parents would say their kids were playing Nintendo even if they had a Sega or Atari game syste. Any person I've ever met from Texas refers to any form of soda that isn't a Dr. Pepper as a coke (lower case c). Dr. Pepper is always referred to by it's name for some reason. lol

With or without the OGL, people who aren't familiar with the specific product will confuse it with the more well-known brand. It happens all the time.
 

Arilyn

Hero
Yes, "internet outrage" can get ridiculous or click baity. This isn't one of those times. We should be outraged. Sly is very angry but he explained things accurately and calmly.

Corporations are very powerful but we do have the ultimate power over them. Losing profit and taking a PR hit is never a good thing. Keep up the pressure.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
If you think Vince is better then the 5 worst people at wotc (taking only there negative traits and none of there good) you are not paying attention.


Edit: and I men as a boss, as a person, as a content creator, and in general... not just one thing. This man has destroyed lives (multi) in ways WotC seems to have not even come close...
He is a monster that abuses people and laws all the time
I'm not saying he's not a terrible person. I was saying that he attempted to give the customer what he thought they actually wanted. He quickly became outdated and wrong. But the point was the guy at the top wanted the customer to receive a good product (at the detriment of everyone else)
 

SteveC

Doing the best imitation of myself
It never stops amazing me when people ask the question "why are these people upset? Why are going nuclear on this?" When you have people who have built a job, a business, a career out of the OGL and this just got dropped on them. It's sort of a Dread Pirate Roberts "good job, probably have to kill you in the morning" thing. We're only a few days out from discussion of how this had to be a lie and been made up.

I am not in the industry, but I have friends who are, but again the question comes up "why do you care? What's upsetting you about this?" I hope questions like this come from a good place but as someone who has been in this since the 1970s, what's going on is just crushing it. It's destroying all of the good will that has taken almost 10 years to build.

I am an unabashed fan of 4E, but I also realize that what happened during that time was incredibly bad for the hobby. And I thought that everyone had learned from that. I suppose this is what happens when you put people who aren't gamers and don't understand gaming culture in charge of what happens to D&D.

So when the question "why do you care?" comes up, I just have to point to all of the games we either aren't going to see or might see in a much reduced way. Is that enough? And people are genuinely upset that the whole life they've built over 20 years is in jeopardy.
 

I'm not saying he's not a terrible person. I was saying that he attempted to give the customer what he thought they actually wanted. He quickly became outdated and wrong.
no he gave the customers what he wanted, and only what he wanted, and lied and cheated and had laws changed to make it so he could abuse his 'not' employees and bought anyone close to competition, so no one had a choice... then he also committed crimes, paid people money to not talk about the crimes, then committed those volant crimes again...
But the point was the guy at the top wanted the customer to receive a good product (at the detriment of everyone else)
No he didn't he just wanted to stay on top, and when the public wanted asked for an got other options he shut them down or turned them into his so he could change it back to his way.

Edit: I like 4e, but the equivalent would be if WotC bought Piazo and made all pathfinder books into 4e ones... then went and did some crimes, and didn't pay there employees by using underhand accounting and legal techniques... but then when Green Ronin put out better monster books and setting books, they bought them too so your only option was WotC style settings and Monster manuals... then they abused more people, gave them money (that came from under handed if not illegal places) and got them to sign NDAs so they couldn't sue or press crimiinal charges... was finally pushed out, and some how got themselves back IN CHARGE... no Vince is a monster who should be in jail
 

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