[Smackdown] Whip-wielder

[RangerWickett]

I would like some help developing a very powerful whip-wielding character, using 3.5 rules. The character should be 16th level, and use only feats presented since 3.5's inception. That means no Lasher class and no whip-daggers.

I'll post my plans here in a second.

 

[RangerWickett]

The benefits of the whip are that it has great reach, and that its the best one-handed weapon for disarming people. It's also useful for tripping. What you're going to have problems with is hurting your foes, since a whip can't hurt people with armor on, or creatures with natural armor above +2. Unless we create a new feat (Wounding Whip) to let us harm foes in armor, we're going to need to go in one of the two following directions.

1. Empowered magic whip-wielder.
2. Utility fighter.

The first character uses a magic whip with various enhancements and benefits that deal damage independent of the whip itself. At 16th level, I could easily imagine this character wielding a +1 flaming shocking icy thundering holy whip. Even if the target has armor on, a hit should still inflict 3d6 damage +2d6 if the target is evil +1d8 on a critical hit. The other option is a brilliant energy whip, but that's still not effective against creatures with natural armor. We could play to the whip's strength of reach by giving the character great cleave, though the drawback is that power attack itself would be a little redundant. However, in a swarm of evil creatures with 17 hit points or less, you could possibly great cleave through everything within 15 feet. For added benefit, enlarge your character to improve his reach. The great thing is that this character can wear full plate if you want, and still use the whip as a passable weapon, though he's crippled if disarmed.

The second character would most likely be a very mobile character, specializing in moving through combat and disarming or tripping foes. Compared to the first character, he suffers the great drawback that he can't do much against monstrous foes. Put him up against a dragon, and he'll just have to cry. He is best when there's a humanoid foe that is relying on a key weapon or item. Snatch away the evil high priest's holy symbol (which is possible with disarm), and you can win the day.

Now, imagine we're making a 16th level character. Can we fit these two archetypes together?

 

[RangerWickett]

Human Fighter 16 seems the most straightforward way to go. Sneak attack isn't useful, raging is pointless, and I'm not sure if Smite Evil counts as damage from the whip (which would be useless against armored foes). Dual-wielding whips as a ranger might be fun, but you'd need two magic whips, which could be very expensive.

Exotic Weapon Proficiency (whip)
Weapon Focus
Greater Weapon Focus
Power Attack
Cleave
Great Cleave
Improved Sunder (the rules never officially state that a whip can't hurt objects)
Improved Critical (whip) (for all those burst weapons)
Combat Expertise
Improved Disarm
Improved Trip
Quickdraw (in case you get disarmed)
Dodge
Mobility
Spring Attack
and of course, Whirlwind Attack

 

[Jeremy]

And dual-wielding whips will just get you eaten by a mildly annoyed werewolf.

The problem with this build is you have no synergies. You have no class or prestige class abilities that are working together to boost your area of focus to anything above the norm. Meaning you are relying entirely on high stats and your +4 from the feat to trip or disarm someone. Against high strength or large monsters (a large contingent of what you'll face at 16th level) there are going to be a lot of things that just will not be phased by your character.

Additionally comes the problem of, your ridiculously low damage output for a 16th level fighter so focused. As a 16th level character you should have some serious world impacting ability. But you are not a good tank, nor a good offense, just a good circus performer. My suggestion would be to use this build with a cohort.

It is a cohort's place to be a support character who is not in the spotlight. Other than that you could try for a high stat, large-sized monstrous race to offset the advantages of your probable opponents.

 

[RangerWickett]

See, I need this sort of advice. I was just starting with the most straightforward stuff I could come up with from the core books, and frankly, there aren't any good classes for whip-wielders.

I know it's not an optimal way to play to the strengths of the fighter, but if, for some crazy reason, I were to want a character who fought just with a whip, how would I do it?

 

[Darklone]

I'd look for a way to get reach with the weapon in your other hand, either by enlarge person or a one handed spiked chain or something similar.

I've seen two working Zorro builds (for levels < 12 though) with rapier and whip. They disarmed or tripped and disarmed, 5ft step and rest of the full attack with the rapier.

For enemies that were more than 5 ft away, bandolier of throwing daggers.

 

[Darklone]

See, I need this sort of advice. I was just starting with the most straightforward stuff I could come up with from the core books, and frankly, there aren't any good classes for whip-wielders.

I know it's not an optimal way to play to the strengths of the fighter, but if, for some crazy reason, I were to want a character who fought just with a whip, how would I do it?

Wounding whips? Unarmed strikes?

 

[UltimaGabe]

Improved Sunder (the rules never officially state that a whip can't hurt objects)

That is correct, but if I am not mistaken, don't whips only deal subdual damage?

 

[RangerWickett]

Zorrus the Mighty, 28-point buy tripping stabby guy
Human Rogue 12/Fighter 4

Str 18 (24)
Dex 15
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 8
Cha 12
HP: 83
Feats:
Two-Weapon Fighting
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (whip)
Weapon Focus (longsword)
Weapon Specialization (longsword)
Combat Expertise
Improved Feint
Improved Trip
Point-Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Power Attack

Base Attack Bonus: +13/+8/+3
Key Equipment:
Belt of Strength +6 (36000)
Mask of Bluffing +10 (10000)
Hat of Enlarge (2000)
+1 holy whip (18302)
+5 keen longsword (72315)
Three +1 returning daggers (24906)
Item of becoming enlarged

Zorrus is a good man, so whenever he fights, he'll first try to trip his foe, and use his improved trip bonus attack to hit his foe and see if they're hurt. If they're hurt, he'll know they're evil, so he'll have no qualms moving forward and attacking with his longsword. If his foe is normally a fairly mobile target, tripping him will leave him vulnerable, allowing Zorrus to power attack for 13 and get +6d6 sneak attack damage on each hit.

Whenever he's not able to use his whip to trip, he hurls daggers at distant foes, or feints and power-sneak attacks in melee.

Zorrus has a special cloak that lets him cast enlarge person at will on himself. Officially this only counts as a 2000gp item, but it extends his reach 5 ft. and gives him +2 Str, so it might need to be upcosted a bit.

Attack:
Whip (off hand) +17 touch attack, trip bonus +11
Longsword (good hand) +22/+17/+12 (1d8+14)

 

[Darklone]

You don't get sneak attacks vs prone targets.