Snap Kick: Charging and AoO

[Shin Okada]

Snap Kick feat from the Book of Nine Swords says,

When you make a melee attack with one or more melee weapons (including a standard attack, full attack, or even a strike maneuver), you can make an additional attack at your highest attack bonus. This attack is an unarmed attack that deals damage equal to your base unarmed attack damage + 1/2 your Str bonus. You take a -2 penalty on all attack rolls you make this round.

Do you think the feat can be used when a character is charging? How about when a character make an attack of opportunity?

 

[Greenfield]

The general rule is that if you move more than a five foot step in a round, you only get one attack. There are feats that can change that, but lacking such a feat I'd say no to the charge.

Similarly, AoO is supposed to be a quick reaction to a passing opportunity. One attack is the limit.

Others are, of course, free to correct me, or to flatly disagree. I'm hardly the final word on such things.

 

[zabom]

By that description I would say yes to charging. It is a melee attack with 1 or more weapons. I would say no to AoO since it is a free action that is made out of turn.

 

[Dandu]

Do you think the feat can be used when a character is charging? How about when a character make an attack of opportunity?

There are feats that allow you to make multiple attacks on a charge, and i believe on an AoO as well, but they specifically tell you you can do so. While a literal reading would suggest you can use it on a charge or AoO, you will probably have trouble finding a DM who interprets it that way, especially on an AoO.

 

[Greenfield]

What about two-weapon combat?

TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING
If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. You suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a –10 penalty to the attack with your off hand when you fight this way. You can reduce these penalties in two ways:
•If your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. (An unarmed strike is always considered light.)
•The Two-Weapon Fighting feat lessens the primary hand penalty by 2, and the off-hand penalty by 6.
Table: Two-Weapon Fighting Penalties summarizes the interaction of all these factors.

If this allows an extra attack with an off-hand weapon, can you take that attack on a charge, or as part of an AoO?

I'm pretty sure the answer is no. Based on this, I don't think Snap Kick should either.

 

[zabom]

Ultimately it is up to the DM. Even if you got an official ruling from WOTC it is the DMs prerogative to declare house rules. As a long time DM myself, I have learned to pick my battles, and allowing a free unarmed attack on a charge won't break the game. The most important rule is to make sure that your players are having fun, and a negative ruling on something like this can cause a resentment that could cause a player to not have fun and leave. I say let him feel powerful. Just add another 40 hp to the encounters to make up for it.

 

[Greenfield]

Just looked at Charge.

Attacking on a Charge: After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll. and take a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn.
A charging character gets a +2 bonus on the Strength check made to bull rush or overrun an opponent (see Bull Rush, above, and Overrun, below).
Even if you have extra attacks, such as from having a high enough base attack bonus or from using multiple weapons, you only get to make one attack during a charge.

Reading the text above (emphasis mine), I read the words "such as" to mean the list of examples is not intended to be complete. They are just some of the possible ways extra attacks might occur (Haste being another that wasn't listed.)

From that I'd say that a Snap Kick can't be delivered as an extra attack on a Charge.

 

[zabom]

Just looked at Charge.



Reading the text above (emphasis mine), I read the words "such as" to mean the list of examples is not intended to be complete. They are just some of the possible ways extra attacks might occur (Haste being another that wasn't listed.)

From that I'd say that a Snap Kick can't be delivered as an extra attack on a Charge.

Yep, reading the description of snap kick left it open to interpretation, but the description of charge clarifies it. Good catch.