D&D 5E Sneak Attack: Is it broken?

[ExploderWizard]

So what if a warlord grants extra attacks? You get sneak attack damage ONCE per turn and thats that. Granting an extra attack wouldn't add to that at all.

 

[mellored]

So what if a warlord grants extra attacks? You get sneak attack damage ONCE per turn and thats that. Granting an extra attack wouldn't add to that at all.

Per turn is not per round. Sneak attack happens on anyone elses turn.

Though "the ally can make 1 additional attack on it's turn" could solve a warlord + rogue issue.

 

[Sunseeker]

So what if a warlord grants extra attacks? You get sneak attack damage ONCE per turn and thats that. Granting an extra attack wouldn't add to that at all.

Yes, but the trick is: there are multiple turns in a round. The text says "once per turn" not "only on your turn"

So if the Warlord grants you an attack on his turn and then you take a reaction on another turn, you get to use Sneak Attack again and again.

 

[mellored]

To be fair, the rogue doesn't do a massive amount of damage with sneak attack.

even adding the 2d8 of green flame blade means he only caught upto the baseline fighter. no including GWM or other feats.

 

[Scorpio616]

To use your one example- sneak attack wasn't designed to work with a (non-existent) warlord class giving extra attacks.

Yeah. Pretty much this. Even stuff that could be interpreted (Command:Flee, Dissonant Whispers) to cause foes to draw OAs would still cost the rogue their Reaction, which is pretty valuable for most of them to 1/2 an attack's damage.

So at least if the Warlord's action granting cost the benefactor their reaction, that would help mitigate that issue.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Yes, but the trick is: there are multiple turns in a round. The text says "once per turn" not "only on your turn"

So if the Warlord grants you an attack on his turn and then you take a reaction on another turn, you get to use Sneak Attack again and again.

Note that the Battlemaster can already do this with Commander's Strike. And the rogue can do it himself with Sentinel or Mage Slayer. Opportunity cost: Uncanny Dodge.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

To be fair, the rogue doesn't do a massive amount of damage with sneak attack.

even adding the 2d8 of green flame blade means he only caught upto the baseline fighter. no including GWM or other feats.

But it is very consistent damage, because as long as you hit at least once. A fighter 11/rogue 9 will do more average damage against high-AC targets than a fighter 20 will, if sneak attack applies, because his first hit does double damage.

It's not OP, but it's not trash either.

 

[Sunseeker]

Note that the Battlemaster can already do this with Commander's Strike. And the rogue can do it himself with Sentinel or Mage Slayer. Opportunity cost: Uncanny Dodge.

True, and I hadn't considered those feats.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

lets take a look at damage in a vacume... (yes I know dpr takes AC and to hit into it, but I'm not a big beliver in dpr)



at 11th level a fighter with a 20 str and a +2 great axe Vs a rouge with a 20 dex and a +1 dagger Vs a warlock with eldritch blast +1 imp and +cha (20) to eldritch blast Vs wizard with disintegrate

wizard 1/day can do 10d6+40 damage min 50 max 100 average 75
Fighter makes 3 attacks each does 1d12+7 so min 24 max 57 average 41
Rogue makes 1 attack and does 1d4+6+6d6 so min 13 max 46 average 30
Warlock makes 3 attacks each does 1d10+6 so min 21 max 48 average 35

now here is why I used the wizard first with his daily compaired to everyone else at will... 2 rounds the fighter is up to the disintegrate, three for the rogue and warlock...

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Hi GMForPowergamers,

I'm a programmer professionally, so I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way and I apologize if it does, but I think there's a problem with your analysis. It makes the Rogue look weaker than it actually is.

lets take a look at damage in a vacume... (yes I know dpr takes AC and to hit into it, but I'm not a big beliver in dpr)

at 11th level a fighter with a 20 str and a +2 great axe Vs a rouge with a 20 dex and a +1 dagger Vs a warlock with eldritch blast +1 imp and +cha (20) to eldritch blast Vs wizard with disintegrate

wizard 1/day can do 10d6+40 damage min 50 max 100 average 75
Fighter makes 3 attacks each does 1d12+7 so min 24 max 57 average 41
Rogue makes 1 attack and does 1d4+6+6d6 so min 13 max 46 average 30
Warlock makes 3 attacks each does 1d10+6 so min 21 max 48 average 35

now here is why I used the wizard first with his daily compaired to everyone else at will... 2 rounds the fighter is up to the disintegrate, three for the rogue and warlock...

By neglecting hit probability, your analysis renders itself meaningless. It's not enough to say "I'm not a big believer in DPR." Specifically, you cannot compare disintegrate with direct attacks because they have different hit probabilities; you cannot compare Rogue sneak attack with the direct attacks unless you are assuming that it's a sneak attack without advantage (i.e. neglecting Cunning Action Hide), because the increased reliability makes the sneak attack better than the raw damage numbers would appear. You can compare fighters to warlocks, since they will have similar hit probabilities against any given opponent, but 50% of your analysis is questionable including the part (sneak attack) that you really wanted to analyze.

BTW, why is the warlock doing d10+6 instead of d10+d6+5?