D&D 5E Sneak Attack: Is it broken?
- Thread starter EzekielRaiden
- Start date
Azurewraith
Explorer
Is there even such a thing as a free action in 5th?
mellored
Legend
There's a "free object interaction".
And there's features that don't require any actions, like divine smite.
JiffyPopTart
Bree-Yark
Ranking my players 7th level characters in average damage per combat...
1. The paladin with GWM gets two attacks a round with a third attack if he crits or kills something. If he gets all three attacks AND blows through his spells to smite attack he can do massive damage in a round. Multiple times he has done 100+ damage in a single round.
2. The monk never seems to miss, always gets three attacks a round, and can roam around and attack any enemy he wants with those attacks. For some reason monks get back all KI points in a half hour (not a short rest) so the monk rarely has no KI to spend in an encounter. Doesn't hit as hard as the paladin, though.
3. The rogue sneak attacks every single round as long as the combat has some cover (I have fairly lenient restrictions on hiding). I have given him a magic bow (the one from the cartoon) that does force damage instead of piercing. I have given him a boost to his SA (lowest he can roll on a die is 3) and he still comes in a distant 3rd place to the paladin and monk.
4. The wizards damage output seems lower than it should be, but he is an abjurer so I think it may be player design.
5. The healing cleric would do practically NO damage if not for that darned Spiritual Guardians spell. He can keep that thing up for an entire combat and if its packed full of bad guys he can rocket to #1 on the damage charts in no time.
Sneak Attack is not even overpowered when I have made it better than usual with player rewards.
1. The paladin with GWM gets two attacks a round with a third attack if he crits or kills something. If he gets all three attacks AND blows through his spells to smite attack he can do massive damage in a round. Multiple times he has done 100+ damage in a single round.
2. The monk never seems to miss, always gets three attacks a round, and can roam around and attack any enemy he wants with those attacks. For some reason monks get back all KI points in a half hour (not a short rest) so the monk rarely has no KI to spend in an encounter. Doesn't hit as hard as the paladin, though.
3. The rogue sneak attacks every single round as long as the combat has some cover (I have fairly lenient restrictions on hiding). I have given him a magic bow (the one from the cartoon) that does force damage instead of piercing. I have given him a boost to his SA (lowest he can roll on a die is 3) and he still comes in a distant 3rd place to the paladin and monk.
4. The wizards damage output seems lower than it should be, but he is an abjurer so I think it may be player design.
5. The healing cleric would do practically NO damage if not for that darned Spiritual Guardians spell. He can keep that thing up for an entire combat and if its packed full of bad guys he can rocket to #1 on the damage charts in no time.
Sneak Attack is not even overpowered when I have made it better than usual with player rewards.
redrick
First Post
Quibble. The Monk still needs to spend a full short rest in order to get his Ki points back. However, during that short rest, he must spend at least 30 minutes meditating:
PHB page 78:
"When you spend a ki point, it is unavailable until you finish a short or long rest, at the end of which you draw all of your expended ki back into yourself. You must spend at least 30 minutes of the rest meditating to regain your ki points."
(Since there are a number of things you can be doing during a short rest, not all of which would be considered meditating.)
Jefe Bergenstein
Legend
Heh, all 8 of em? CR 10+ is pretty lean in terms of variety, basically dragons and a few demons/devils. 5E expects you to fight weenie hordes (which are then overvalued in encounter calculations).
I have 3 sorcs, a fighter, two rogues and a cleric in my game's group. A lot of firepower right? Sneak attack is great steady damage for rogues who get advantage but there are ways to remind rogues they are glass cannons. The sorcs are easy but rogues can have decent AC.
1. Extra NPCs. I disabled some characters with Quazits in bat form accompanying a Vrock. Once the quasits were gone they did lay the hammer down because they had it completely surrounded.
2. High single strike damage can attract agro, especially in melee. Rogues don't have a lot of HP. One hit from a brute and they need to take a turn to disengage, move and hide/dash.
3. When rogues roll stealth don't tell them if they are hidden or not since it relies on NPC PP or active perception. When they hit ask them to tell you damage and separate sneak attack damage and record what the outcome really is.
4. On crit fails I do an affect. If they hit someone from behind I will (rarely) apply the sneak attack damage for their turn.
5. Remember that turns are individualized. When combat returns to the top of the turn order the rogue still may be in their specific turn. Rogues seem to think SA damage applies on opportunity attacked but they do not if they expended their SA during their action attacks.
6. SA is once per turn so multi-class fighter's action surge does not give the rogue a second sneak attack in the second action. (I will allow this if the party is split and the rogue manages to hit a creature in the other party, who are hurting badly, with something...but i would present it as an option for spending inspiration.
1. Extra NPCs. I disabled some characters with Quazits in bat form accompanying a Vrock. Once the quasits were gone they did lay the hammer down because they had it completely surrounded.
2. High single strike damage can attract agro, especially in melee. Rogues don't have a lot of HP. One hit from a brute and they need to take a turn to disengage, move and hide/dash.
3. When rogues roll stealth don't tell them if they are hidden or not since it relies on NPC PP or active perception. When they hit ask them to tell you damage and separate sneak attack damage and record what the outcome really is.
4. On crit fails I do an affect. If they hit someone from behind I will (rarely) apply the sneak attack damage for their turn.
5. Remember that turns are individualized. When combat returns to the top of the turn order the rogue still may be in their specific turn. Rogues seem to think SA damage applies on opportunity attacked but they do not if they expended their SA during their action attacks.
6. SA is once per turn so multi-class fighter's action surge does not give the rogue a second sneak attack in the second action. (I will allow this if the party is split and the rogue manages to hit a creature in the other party, who are hurting badly, with something...but i would present it as an option for spending inspiration.
This is incorrect. The rogue's turn ends when the next creature's turn begins, and since Sneak Attack is per turn, the rogue may use SA once on each other creature's turns.
I'd cite some sources on this, but since it's one of the most frequently asked questions about 5e, you should be able to find some discussions pretty easily.
Gnashtooth
First Post
I don't see why getting sneak attack damage a maximum of twice per round is a big deal. You can only use it on your turn once, and once if there is an opportunity attack to be made and you haven't spent your reaction. This never changes, no matter how many attacks you get when you take the 'attack' action, and you only ever get one reaction. If you've spent it, you've spent it, and you can't use it to make an opportunity attack.
Once you've spent your action, reaction, and bonus action, you can do nothing no matter how many turns pass, until the next round.
Once you've spent your action, reaction, and bonus action, you can do nothing no matter how many turns pass, until the next round.
JiffyPopTart
Bree-Yark
That cheater!!! I always thought it made ZERO sense to design something to recharge on something other than short or long rests, but I didn't check the players work. It isn't going to be a major change to the game but there were occasional times when the monk would "rest" while the rest of the party searched for treasure and such after a battle.
Thanks for the heads up!
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