Sneak attack w/Ray of Frost?

[mikebr99]

Hi All.
Seems like an easy question... and by RAW, it sems as though it should work. It's just bugging me that an Arcane Trickster or worse (Gestalt rogue/wizard)... with the double wand weilding feat from Complete Arcane has the potential for a lot of damage by just using a 0-level spell. YMMV.

thoughts... rules I may have missed... anyone??


Mike

 

[AuraSeer]

Yes, sneak attack works with ray of frost or other ranged attack spells. This is a reasonably useful combination, but IME it hasn't been as powerful in play as it seems on first reading.

Just like sneak attacking with a bow, it only works when the rogue is within 30' and his target is denied its Dex bonus-- and doesn't work at all on constructs, undead, and the like. Plus, the target gets the benefit of elemental resistance or SR, if any.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

A rogue with a high enough UMD skill and a 375-gold wand can do it too.

AR

 

[scholz]

Keep in mind... if it only works when a target is denied its dex bonus. Then your spellcaster/rogue is getting a sneak attack against AC 10 or less (if large).
Since the Ray of Frost bypasses Armor and Natural Armor Bonuses, and with dex they lose their dex and dodge bonuses. There might be some deflection bonuses or the like, but by in large you are get the free sneak attack.
If you allow this. Don't be surprised if your Rogues with Improved Intitiative take a level of sorcerer. As it will effectivly grant them a free sneak attack with an auto-success the first round of most combats. Maybe not all, but most.

 

[FireLance]

Who needs ray of frost? Any rogue could do it with a vial of acid, or two vials of acid and Rapid Shot. Or at high levels, four vials of acid, Quick Draw and Rapid Shot. Ah - go nuts. Seven vials of acid, Quick Draw, Rapid Shot, Two-weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting. 77d6 of acid damage in the first round of regular combat against a flat-footed foe within 30 feet if all of them hit. If the opponent is vulnerable to fire, substitute alchemist's fire for 77d6 x 1.5 (avg 404) damage. That's enough to take out your average ancient white dragon (CR 18, 375 hp).

EDIT: Nearly forgot to add the +1 damage for Point Blank Shot (pre-requisite for Rapid Shot) per vial of acid/alchemist's fire. With that, and the 7d6 x 1.5 (avg 36) damage the seven vials of alchemist's fire will do in the next round of combat, a high-level rogue can take out an average wyrm white dragon (CR 19, 445 hp).

 

[shilsen]

Who needs ray of frost? Any rogue could do it with a vial of acid, or two vials of acid and Rapid Shot. Or at high levels, four vials of acid, Quick Draw and Rapid Shot. Ah - go nuts. Seven vials of acid, Quick Draw, Rapid Shot, Two-weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting. 77d6 of acid damage in the first round of regular combat against a flat-footed foe within 30 feet if all of them hit. If the opponent is vulnerable to fire, substitute alchemist's fire for 77d6 x 1.5 (avg 404) damage. That's enough to take out your average ancient white dragon (CR 18, 375 hp).

EDIT: Nearly forgot to add the +1 damage for Point Blank Shot (pre-requisite for Rapid Shot) per vial of acid/alchemist's fire. With that, and the 7d6 x 1.5 (avg 36) damage the seven vials of alchemist's fire will do in the next round of combat, a high-level rogue can take out an average wyrm white dragon (CR 19, 445 hp).

We're talking about at least a 19th lvl rogue (for the +10d6 sneakk attack damage per hit) then? Considering the level, the fact that the poor guy spent 5 feats to be able to pull it off, and he managed to find a flat-footed ancient white dragon within 30 ft, I say go for it! Considering what the wizard, sorcerer, cleric and druid can do at that level with a loincloth and their spells, the poor rogue needs to catch a break

 

[italianranma]

Actually that is sorta the concept for my Rogue Sorcerer that I'm playing right now. This was made way before complete arcane (I still haven't seen it yet) but I'm going for the Arcane Trickster Prc, and with my Sorcerer spells I've been selecting things that will deny the target's DEX bonus: 1st level Color Spray, 2nd level Glitterspray, 3rd level blink, etc. It's awesome when it works, but in most cases the Paladin comes in on her horse and powerattacks the poor thing to death in the first round.

 

[UltimaGabe]

Considering what the wizard, sorcerer, cleric and druid can do at that level with a loincloth and their spells, the poor rogue needs to catch a break

Um... actually, not quite. Anything a Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, or Druid could do to kill a dragon in the first round would require some sort of a save, as well as overcoming Spell Resistance. And trust me, a Great Wyrm dragon of any sort is going to make the save every time unless it rolls a 1. For the rogue, however, all he has to do is hit and hope they aren't immune to the damage.

 

[Judas]

I thought I read somewhere ranged touch spells can't have the sneak attack damage added, but ranged spells like Melf's Acid Arrow can. I could be mistaken though, but I though I just read that clarification just recently.

 

[UltimaGabe]

I thought I read somewhere ranged touch spells can't have the sneak attack damage added, but ranged spells like Melf's Acid Arrow can. I could be mistaken though, but I though I just read that clarification just recently.

Um... Melf's Acid Arrow IS a Ranged Touch spell.