Sneak Attacks in the Rogue Class, WHY?

[simonski]

And for the sake of throwing it up here, the Wheel of Time Noble.

The every-other-level ability (starting at 1st) of the Noble is "Call in a favor." They get a total of 10 during the course of their career, can "store" up to five at a time, and are used by making a special check (noble level + cha mod vs. a DC arbitrarily set by the DM). Favors aren't recoverable when used, but are not considered to be used up when they fail. You cannot use two favors for the same thing.

Example favors include trying to get valuable info, or trying to acquire resources without needing to pay for them. There aren't any real guidlines for them.

Inspire Confidence: +1 at 2nd level, up another plus every four levels after (caps at +5 at L18). Full-round action involving a speech, and requires a diplomacy check DC 10 + (number of people to be inspired, including noble, divided by 5). If it succeeds, the inspired gain +(#) as a competance bonus to attack rolls, skill checks, and Will saves. Duration = 10 minutes * # rounds spent on it -- max of 5 hours after 30 rounds. It can be used once a day.

Command: +2 at 4th level, +2 every fourth level past that (caps at +10 at 20th level). By passing a Charisma check = DC 15 + # of people directed, he gives that bonus in addition to the normal +2 for an Aid Another action relating to skill checks. Duration = task length, minimum of a full round. Can be used an unlimited number of times per day.

Other relevant Noble stuff: use of all simple and martial weapons, shields, and light armor. Skills = Bard list minus.. (*looks at Bard Skill List* Well, listing what skills they don't have compared to Bards would take more time and space than listing what they do have..).. Err... Anyways, Skills = Appraise, Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Info, Innuendo, Intimidate, Knowledge (any), Listen, Perform, Ride, Sense Motive, and Speak/write Language. Points is 4 + int mod. Hit die is the d8, medium base attack bonus, moderate Reflex save (change to good if you don't feel like screwing with that..) and good will save. Lastly, at 1st, they get to pick one cross-class skill as a class skill.

Very, VERY low powered compared to 3e PC classes..

Wow that looks mighty interesting, a class that has a primary focus on cooperating with other characters. Great!

Thank you, I will introduce this class to my campaign

 

[simonski]

I'll stick my neck out here and say "Well Said, simonski"

Don't take it too hard that there are some people here bashing you (yes, Henry, they are being quite harsh - i think it's ridiculous you took his line as being criticizing).
Lots of people like D&D exactly the way it is: with high-powerred magic dwarfing a classic sense of adventuring when you get to higher levels.

I have made posts that bemoan this intense magic-saturation over the past few months, and there are a few people that agree, but many more simply say "You should play D&D the way it IS! Love it or leave it!"
Some have even said that we should not even TRY to tweak the system as it is too intrinsic in D&D to ever not be magic-drenched.

I say "Bah".

Dropping a couple spells and tweaking a few things here and there doesn't ruin a system, or make it "not D&D".

If I wanted to be spurring on discussion, i would contend that if you play D&D straight out of the box, you are participating in a game that is only a couple steps removed from a CRPG like Diablo, or something.

But i won;t go there, since people more knowledgeable than me have been pointing out this "l33t killer" nature of 3E since it came out.

Basically, simonski - you stick to your preferences in your game, and make sure you keep the sense of Epic Heroic Gaming in your campaign, and just know that most people on these boards, at least, have a different opinion of what Heroic Fantasy is all about.
And their picture includes LOTS of magic items dwarfing the power of the CHARACTER, and tons of spells being flung about that tend to dictate the sway of battle.

Thank you for your kind words. I am glad that I am not the only one on this board that despises "diabloesque-gaming" Still I remind all of you out there that Im not picking on anyone that IS using loads of magic-items etc, if that IS your prefered style of playing then that great. I just hope I dont step on someones toes when I say these things, like with the assassin class. That is just my own opinions and Im not telling you how to run your games.

PEACE!

 

[rounser]

Sorry, I didnt speak for all of you. I meant to write that simplicity is what I like about d&d. Sorry for the misunderstanding

I think I understood this pretty clearly:

What makes d&d great is not that its full of Magic items and Equipment, nor that that you can be a high level magician. What makes d&d great is its simplicity. Its a good system because its fast and one can focus on roleplaying, theatrical dialogue and atmosphere instead of rules.

But what you say you meant was

What makes d&d great to me is not that its full of Magic items and Equipment, nor that you can be a high level magician. What makes d&d great according to me it its simplicity. In my opinion its a good system because its fast and one can focus on roleplaying, theatrical dialogue and atmosphere instead of rules.

If this is what you think, have you tried Fudge? The system's commonly considered better, and if simplicity is the only thing that makes D&D great, then Fudge wins hands down.

 

[simonski]

No I havent tried Fudge. I also like the d&d settings ofcourse, forgotten realms, greyhawk, ravenloft.. yum

An interesting thing I wish to know though, do any of you use Deadly Puddings, oozes and abberations/beholders in your campaigns?

 

[Hadraniel]

I have read about 4 pages of post but here goes.

For the First Post. I am not sure I would consider all city people rogues. Most people encountered would be 0-level people. A good merchant is most likely the guy with a high charisma and intelligence. The acrobat is the man with the dex and warehouse worker has some strength to him...etc.

Not all rogues are assasins. I play a rogue and do most of the talking for the group, I spend a lot of points in diplomacy and bluff. But one could take the educated feat and take these and a bunch of knowledge skills making him a well informed and sly talker.

As for the making a pacifist priest why not just play a priest and roleplay him as a pacifist if that is what you really want. If you want a rogue with no sneak attack then just don't use sneak attack. If you want a character based for roleplaying then the class combat features should not matter too much, you are there to roleplay not fight after all.

If you do not like combat you may want to look into mask of the red death. This is a game that HP and BAB does not really matter. I well placed shot and you are dead. The game is about puzzles and role playing, at least for people who want to live long.

 

[DMaple]

No I havent tried Fudge. I also like the d&d settings ofcourse, forgotten realms, greyhawk, ravenloft.. yum

An interesting thing I wish to know though, do any of you use Deadly Puddings, oozes and abberations/beholders in your campaigns?

You like Forgotten Realms but you think magic should be rare? Okay whatever.

 

[simonski]

You like Forgotten Realms but you think magic should be rare? Okay whatever.

Just because I like the forgotten realms setting doesnt mean everyone in the setting is running around like crossdressers with 5 rings on every hand, necklaces of protection and hurling inflatable castles all over.

 

[Frostmarrow]

The best feature of D&D is (and has always been) the support. There are adventures, sourcebooks and supplements readily available. More is coming down the pipe every day. The maps are beautifuly rendered color posters. There are plenty of players. Those things are worth a everything to me. I don't care too much for Monty Haul but luckily I don't have to play the game that way.

 

[simonski]

The best feature of D&D is (and has always been) the support. There are adventures, sourcebooks and supplements readily available. More is coming down the pipe every day. The maps are beautifuly rendered color posters. There are plenty of players. Those things are worth a everything to me. I don't care too much for Monty Haul but luckily I don't have to play the game that way.

Yeah, absolutely.

 

[El_Gringo]

"Just because I like the forgotten realms setting doesnt mean everyone in the setting is running around like crossdressers with 5 rings on every hand, necklaces of protection and hurling inflatable castles all over."

That example is just absurd. Everyone knows you can only benefit from 2 magic rings.