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D&D 5E Sniper Rogue?

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Now, I will start out by saying that the Assassin and the Inquisitive both do a good job of helping you be a sniper, but neither feels like a character specialized in that strategy, to me.

Which makes me wonder, what would? The assassin crits more and has advantage when getting the drop, which is easy to do with hundreds of feet of range and exceptional stealth, but the rest of the subclass is about social infiltration, more or less.

The Inquisitive lets you reliably sneak attack regardless of circumstance, allowing you more freedom in your tactics from round to round, once you've set that up, but it's actually a fairly small boon most of the time.

The Scout....exists, I guess. You can get away from people a bit easier, after they've whomped on you, if you didn't use your reaction to mitigate damage with uncanny dodge.

So, I don't think that rogues need much damage boost, but a sniper isn't dual wielding, and will probably never get reaction attacks, so I do think that a mild damage increase is possible, here.

Also, in terms of the story of a subclass, I see two possibilities. First, the rogue's alternative to the fighter's Gunslinger. Proficiency with guns, reload as a bonus action, etc. The second is the Deepwood Sniper concept. Basically an alternate Scout, gets proficiency but not automatic expertise in Survival and Nature, then sniper stuff and maybe some climbing related stuff, ability to ignore partial cover.

The gunfighter would be less focused on long range, and have some features that speak to fast draw type stuff, while the Deepwood sniper would be more about stealth and long range.

Here are some quick thoughts for mechanics that could work. The subclass wouldn't get all of these, they're just a list of ideas.

  • Pick Your Target - the sniper gets to choose a target and focus on them, similar to the inquisitive.
  • Shot on The Run - you can use Steady Aim even if you move. Later, you can move full speed without a stealth penalty.
  • Use The Terrain - you can attempt to hide while only lightly obscured by features of the terrain that would be difficult terrain.
  • Lethal Aim - When you hit with advantage on a ranged weapon attack, you gain one or more of;
    • Reroll 1s and 2s on the damage dice
    • reduce the target to 0hp if the damage would reduce them to a number of HP equal to your Rogue Level + your dex or lower
    • Your Sneak Attack damage dice become d8s instead of d6s
  • You can make a ranged weapon attack as as a reaction as if you'd taken the readied action if;
    • A creature you have studied (or marked for death or whatever) moves more than 10ft or draws a weapon or spellcasting focus item while within the short range of a ranged weapon you are weilding
    • A creature makes a ranged attack against you or an ally of yours within 30ft of you
    • A hidden or invisible creature comes out of hiding or becomes visible due to casting a spell or making an attack
  • You crit on a 19 or 20, either against targets you've marked, or with specific weapons, or when you make an attack that qualifies for sneak attack?
  • A slightly more "tinker" aspect could be gained by being able to build specialised ranged weapons with greater range, repeating mechanisms, etc.
  • A pool of trick shot dice, or an at-will version that packs less punch (no extra damage). Maybe reduce SA damage for secondary effects, but I've never seen any version of that be satisfying.

Any other ideas? Know of any 3pp rogue subclasses that already do this?
 

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Charlaquin

Goblin Queen
I love the idea of a gunner rogue. The deepwood idea I don’t think it’s conceptually different enough from the scout for my taste. What about if the Gunner got a choice of fighting styles at 3rd level though? Sniper to ignore long range penalty with muskets (or two-handed firearms if you want to make it compatible with modern and scifi firearms and/or homebrew firearms) and dragoon to ignore melee range penalty and loading property with pistols (or one-handed firearms)?
 







why?

it's even more boring class :D

but 1st level fighter is good if he wants to have sharpshooter.
19-20 crit and +2 to hit (which seems a little silly, because he's hitting already all the time anyway).

For those same 3 levels he could increase his sneak attack damage by +2d6.

It's probably a wash really, but I dont know how to calculate that DPR.

Although I suppose it makes Sharpshooter more reliable, and it's not resource dependent so he can do it all day long.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
19-20 crit and +2 to hit (which seems a little silly, because he's hitting already all the time anyway).

For those same 3 levels he could increase his sneak attack damage by +2d6.

It's probably a wash really, but I dont know how to calculate that DPR.

Although I suppose it makes Sharpshooter more reliable, and it's not resource dependent so he can do it all day long.

15% crit chance goes to 30%.

He does miss occasionally not often eg 3 3's on the dice. Or he has to move using bonus action due to lack of range of the hand crossbow.

Probably less damage overall but more fun with extra crits. Plus action surge.

At level 5 extra attack which offsets most if the lost 3d6 sneak attack.

Builds not that impressive because if the two clerics doing cleric things.
 

Panfilo

Existential Risk
Any version of full ranged reaction attacks would have to reckon with the Sneak Attack ruling. Since SA is once per anyone’s turn, you’d either have to overrule it or majorly restrict the new feature itself.
 

15% crit chance goes to 30%.

He does miss occasionally not often eg 3 3's on the dice. Or he has to move using bonus action due to lack of range of the hand crossbow.
Why would he use a hand crossbow?

For Elven accuracy, sharpshooter and crossbow master he would need to be an Elf, and at least 10th level (Rogue 4/ Fighter 6).

Plus he's using his bonus action most rounds to Aim (or Hide) so the Bonus action extra attack likely never comes in that handy.

As an Elf (and a Fighter) he's proficient in the Longbow.

Probably less damage overall but more fun with extra crits. Plus action surge.

At level 5 extra attack which offsets most if the lost 3d6 sneak attack.
By that stage you're looking at Reliable talent as a Rogue, which is amazing.
Builds not that impressive because if the two clerics doing cleric things.

Shouldnt matter if you're enforcing standard adventuring days on them.

From memory, you dont though.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Why would he use a hand crossbow?

For Elven accuracy, sharpshooter and crossbow master he would need to be an Elf, and at least 10th level (Rogue 4/ Fighter 6).

Plus he's using his bonus action most rounds to Aim (or Hide) so the Bonus action extra attack likely never comes in that handy.

As an Elf (and a Fighter) he's proficient in the Longbow.


By that stage you're looking at Reliable talent as a Rogue, which is amazing.


Shouldnt matter if you're enforcing standard adventuring days on them.

From memory, you dont though.

Drow elf that's why hand crossbow in the under dark.

Doesn't have sharpshooter.

Encounters vary from 1-6. Even if I enforced it the clerics have enough resources to carry through anyway and I design tougher encounters.
 

Drow elf that's why hand crossbow in the under dark.

Doesn't have sharpshooter.
He took crossbow expert? He's using his bonus action for Aim.

That sounds... like a poor choice. He's proficient in longbows due to being a Fighter. Better range, so no disadvantage for a longer distance.
Encounters vary from 1-6. Even if I enforced it the clerics have enough resources to carry through anyway and I design tougher encounters.

I doubt that.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
With Tasha's all rogue are snipers. No need to make a subclass what the base class already covers.
 


Zardnaar

Legend
He took crossbow expert? He's using his bonus action for Aim.

That sounds... like a poor choice. He's proficient in longbows due to being a Fighter. Better range, so no disadvantage for a longer distance.


I doubt that.

Can't get the ammo for the longbow. He hasn't visited a market for months. They're essentially camping in caves.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I love the idea of a gunner rogue. The deepwood idea I don’t think it’s conceptually different enough from the scout for my taste. What about if the Gunner got a choice of fighting styles at 3rd level though? Sniper to ignore long range penalty with muskets (or two-handed firearms if you want to make it compatible with modern and scifi firearms and/or homebrew firearms) and dragoon to ignore melee range penalty and loading property with pistols (or one-handed firearms)?
I like those!
Any version of full ranged reaction attacks would have to reckon with the Sneak Attack ruling. Since SA is once per anyone’s turn, you’d either have to overrule it or majorly restrict the new feature itself.
The Sneak Attack rule, yeah. That’s the point. Just like if the Swashbuckler was really supposed to be a duelist it would have a parry-riposte ability for reaction.
With Tasha's all rogue are snipers. No need to make a subclass what the base class already covers.
Hard disagree. All rogues are accurate. That doesn’t make them a sniper.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
I like those!

The Sneak Attack rule, yeah. That’s the point. Just like if the Swashbuckler was really supposed to be a duelist it would have a parry-riposte ability for reaction.

Hard disagree. All rogues are accurate. That doesn’t make them a sniper.

It supports the sniper playstyle more. Melee has to move around more negating the Tasha ability.

A non Drow elf packing a longbow with elven accuracy great sniper with Tasha's.

Non elf use a shortbow.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
It supports the sniper playstyle more. Melee has to move around more negating the Tasha ability.

A non Drow elf packing a longbow with elven accuracy great sniper with Tasha's.

Non elf use a shortbow.
Sure, it’s more of a boon to ranged rogues, but it’s really more of a fix for those times where there is no terrain to hide in or your DM is being recalcitrant about giving advantage with trickery and tactics (skill checks).
 

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