Sniping from the shadows

Nefarii

First Post
Background in the World:

The world is split in two, 5 houses in the south and 4 houses in the north; both regions are in a constant struggle to combat the arcane arts. The houses in the north and south decide to combine armies and wage an all out war against spell casters. After victory was won in the south, the north demanded the same help in their attempts to purge their lands of magic; only the south refused and in retaliation the north destroyed 2 of the 5 houses in the south.

(This campaign has been going on for a few years now and seems fairly epic and now me and a friend of mine are jumping into the world)

My concept is that I was apart of one of the houses in the south that was attacked and destroyed. During the battle I was stabbed and left for dead as my home was set ablaze, fortunately I was rescued before the house collapsed on me though it left me scarred and disfigured. Owing my life to this person (and considering I have no family, home, or possessions left) I decide to follow him. The man I am following (my friend IRL) is a charismatic fighter who is going for leadership in order to build an army to seek revenge against the north.

Since I am disfigured I follow him from afar, in bushes, or on rooftops/in alleys; I never interact with other people (I assume I wear a mask). I watch his back and protect him as he tries to recruit people into his army for the upcoming war.

Our DM has limited us to human and will let us use most of the books provided it would be reasonable that our character would have had access to the class/feats

So... my build is stealthy range fighter who will rarely be in close combat

Ranger 2/ Scout Sniper 1/ Rouge 1

1 - Favorite creature type (human), track, wild empathy, precise shot
2 - Combat style (rapid shot)
3 - Sniper shot (+1d6), Able Sniper (+2 to attack when flat footed, +4 to hide after)
4 - Sneak Attack, Trap finding

I'm not sure where to go from here though, I would like to at least plan to level 9; prestige classes I am looking at are Darkwood Stalker, Bow Initiate, and Deepwood Sniper, but I'm not sure if I would like to get some more sneak attack damage or Sniper damage.

Feats I'm looking at are:

Foe Hunter: +2 bluff, listen, sense motive, spot, attack (stacks with favored enemy)
Bow Feint: This would help with sneak attack damage if I was spotted

I think this will be a fun concept to play but I definitely need the help of more experienced players to get the most out of this build
 

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I haven't seen sneak attack add up to much unless you have a lieninet DM and ideal campaign setting. It looks like you have the camaign (vs humans). Ranged sneak attack compounds the circumstatial concerns. It's not easy to pull off.

What is Bow Feint from?

As for getting the most of your build, I would look at this.
 



questbreaker said:
some levels in scout might help. skirmish and sneak attack stack, if im not mistaken.
They do stack, the problem is you need to qualify for both. If you move and make a raged attack, you probably arn't flanking in Melee or hidden. From what I have seen in practice is the rogue/scout gets one or the other, rarely both outside first round flat footed.
 

How about this?

Rogue 2/Ranger 2

Take the rogue level at 1 and 4. You want the first one at 1 to benefit from the extra SP, and the second one at 4 in order to get key skills maxed out again (tumble, disable device come to mind).

Feats:

1 - Able Sniper
Hu - Crossbow Sniper (PHBII - SA range out to 60', add 1/2 dex mod to damage)
3 - Rapid Reload
Ranger 1 - Tracking (Perhaps use Urban Ranger variant from UA with Urban Tracking), Favored Enemy (Humans)
Ranger 2 - Rapid Shot

Next you squeeze in PBS or Precise Shot. You can wait for level 6 + 9 or take a fighter level for the quick feat or jump into Human Paragon. I wouldn't worry too much about this as a sniper usually can select a target that is not in melee with a friend.

The main problem will be shoring up your will save. I would advise starting with 12 or 14 WIS and squeezing in Iron Will if possible, along with potions and friendly buffs.

With this build, you can totally ignore STR. Dump to 8 if desired. Pump DEX through the roof. Sneak Attack becomes much more useful with a 60' range. Remember, foes take a -1 penalty on spot checks per 10', so a 60' range effectively equals +6 to your hide checks.

Say you hide in some bushes (offering concealment), are prone (crossbows can be fired prone), have hide maxed out, and have 19 dex + a potion of cat's grace (not unreasonable for a big fight), along with a masterwork crossbow.

To Hit with Rapid Shot: +10 (+3 BAB + 6 DEX + 1 MWORK - 2 RAPID SHOT + 2 ABLE SNIPER)
Damage with Lt Xbow: 1d8+3+1d6 SA
Hide: +27 (+7 ranks + 6 dex + 2 equipment + 2 circumstance* + 4 sniper feat + 6 viewer's spot penalty)

*I'd ask my DM if being prone in the bushes gave a +2 bonus to hide.

The big advantages of going the crossbow route are:
- Fire while prone (great for snipers)
- Less stat intensive -- STR becomes irrelevant
- Cheaper - No need for composite strength bows, saves cash for magical enhancements or ammo

The disadvantages are:
- Requires an extra feat (rapid reload)
- Range is somewhat more limited (usually not a problem)
 

Skirmish seems rather pointless to this build because you have to move 10 ft before you can use it and must stay within a 30ft range and its tough to be unnoticed at 30ft, thats why sneak attack with rouge looks much better to me.

The Scout Sniper can be located here
Bow Feint can be located here

If i decide to go the crossbow route, why not try this build?:

Fighter 5/ Ranger 1

F1 - Precise Shot, Point blank shot, Rapid Reload
F2 - Rapid Shot
F3 - Foe Hunter
F4 - Able Sniper
R1 - Favorite Enemy
F5 - Many Shot or crossbow sniper

I would accomplish alot feat wise, but would it be worth the dip in skills? Really all I am going for is hide, Move Sil, Sense Motive, Spot, Listen

Or if I wanted to keep my skills try this:

Rouge 3 / Ranger 2 / Avenger 4

Ro1 - Sneak attack +1d6, trap finding, rapid reload
Ra1 - Favored enemy, track, wild empathy
Ra 2 - Rapid Shot, crossbow sniper
Ro 2 - Evasion
Ro 3 - Sneak Attack +2d6, trap finding
Av 1 - Sneak attack +3d6, precise shot, death attack, poison use, spells
Av 2 - +1 Save against poison, uncanny dodge
Av 3 - Sneak attack +4d6
Av 4 - +2 saves against poison, able sniper

I like the thought of using a crossbow because then I can dump strength which could actually be apart of my disfigured back story.

which is usually better, light or heavy crossbow?

Can anyone else do anymore tweaking?
 
Last edited:

Nefarii said:
If i decide to go the crossbow route, why not try this build?:

Fighter 5/ Ranger 1

First, NEVER, ever take an odd number of fighter levels (unless it is 1).

Second, it is rarely a great idea to take more than 2 fighter levels. 4 is the most I'd ever take.

For example, the you could replace fighter levels 3, 4, and 5 above with a second level of ranger. This gets you the same number of bonus feats (one - Rapid Shot), more skill points, and superior saves. Plus, you get the same results in one level, not three.

If you are going to go for 4 levels of fighter, I would think hard about squeezing in Weapon Specialization. Its pretty much the only unique benefit a fighter gets, and the bonus damage on each shot is nice with Rapid Shot.

As far as skills go, you need at a minimum Hide (your position is likely stationary, so MS is gravy, although it would be handy) and Spot (to see targets). I would also have a skill that let me construct or locate concealment (to hide in). Survival and perhaps Craft (Woodworking) would go a long ways towards locating or making hunting blinds.
 


Alright I think this is my final version:

Rouge 3 / Ranger 2 / Avenger 4

Ro1 - Sneak attack +1d6, trap finding, precise shot
Ra1 - Favored enemy, track, wild empathy
Ra 2 - Rapid Shot, able sniper
Ro 2 - Evasion
Ro 3 - Sneak Attack +2d6, trap finding
Av 1 - Sneak attack +3d6, Point Blank Shot, death attack, poison use, spells
Av 2 - +1 Save against poison, uncanny dodge
Av 3 - Sneak attack +4d6
Av 4 - +2 saves against poison, Many Shot

And I think I am just going to use a longbow

Anyone want to critique?
 

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