Snow, Ice, and Mountains

[LostSoul]

Don't expect too much. The environmental books in theory addressed a huge hole in the rules, and were cool looking but in practice I didn't find much of anything of value in them.

snip

All the books are in my opinion hampered by the fact that instead of being about hot environments, or cold environments, or wet environments, they spend a large amount of their time on Dreadful magical environments that are too tailored to a trope campaign - in Frostburn its a world where the snow is made of magical acid that burns you as well as freezes you.

I don't think that's fair. I've used Frostburn a bunch. It tells you how much protection you need from the cold, the penalties for being at high elevation, and introduces a lot of feats and spells that help in the cold. You don't have to incorporate the magical frost stuff.


I'd suggest creating a Ranger- or Druid- based PrC that has access to some of the Frostburn spells at-will - snow walk, for example. At higher levels you might want to give access to move snow and ice at will - which would allow the creation of massive ice castles and be pretty bad-ass in a fight.

 

[Celebrim]

The 3.5 SRD does not have any definitive rules on movement over snow or ice that I can see. Skiing and skating should be skills and using snow shoes should provide better movement over snowy terrain.

No. Again, there is a tiny blurb in Frostburn. In general, the rules they moved from the environmental books to the Rules Compendium are better thought out than the source rules (there are big side bars in the Rules Compendium apologizing for how dumb the environmental rules are), but I don't recall right off the top of my head whether they ported the cold equipment rules.

Basically, snow shoes and skis let you move on snow as if it wasn't difficult terrain. Skis also let you move at run speed down a hill (they make no attempt to define what that means), and take a like round to take off and put on. They make no attempt to quantify how hard it is to engage in melee combat wearing skis or snow shoes and offer nothing scalable (for example, compare ride), and I don't recall the skates rules but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't do for a hockey simulation. The make no attempt to quantify how hard it is to ski when not holding a ski pole in each hand (for example, holding a sword or bow), or deal with player stunt requests like, "I'd like to ski down hill at top speed firing my bow at the dragon as I go." Etc. I suspect in play you'd find them basically unusable for anything but computing long distance travel rates.

I am going to give my class bonuses for spotting avalanches, seeing in bad weather, and surviving at high altitude. Hmm...

All of that could be 1st level of the PrC stuff. You could front load all of that and not unbalance the class. In fact, most of that could be covered by a single Favored Terrain bonus granting +X bonus on survival, perception (spot/listen, however you do it), and endurance checks when in the favored terrain. That would be far more useful than saying, "You have a +X bonus to spot avalanches." On the other hand, that's a bonus that is still so generally weak (because its is an enhancement of minor situational skills in a single situation, one environment) that its probably worth less than 1 bonus feat for anything up to about a +5 bonus. It's not exactly something you'd be willing to trade a lot of features for.

 

[Samloyal23]

So, the main issues facing a character in the mountains are altitude, cold, visibility, and terrain. Cold resistance is obvious, I am making this character a 5-level prestige class with cold resistance going from 5 to 20 starting at level 2. For dealing with altitude, the character gains a bonus on Fortitude checks and divides all altitudes by half for purposes of altitude sickness. I can have the class take 10 on spot and listen checks in bad weather or give a +5 on checks, whatever. The question is, how hard is it to move on snow and ice?

 

[Samloyal23]

Well, here is my folkloric root I am basing this class on...

Barbegazi are mythical creatures from Swiss and French mythology. A variety of dwarf or gnome, a barbegazi resembles a small white-furred man with a long beard and enormous feet. They travel in the mountains that are their home by skiing with their massive feet, or using them as snowshoes. In the summer they aestivate in caves and tunnels and do not come out until the first snowfall. The word barbegazi comes from the French barbe-glacée, meaning "frozen beard". Because of their penchant for high altitudes and low temperatures, they are rarely sighted by humans, but sometimes help shepherds round up lost sheep. Their greatest known excitement is surfing on avalanches with their remarkably large feet, but they are said to give low whistling cries to warn humans of the danger above, sometimes they will give their best effort to dig humans out from the snow.

Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?320670-My-Campaign-Notes/page4#ixzz3GoUJAW6a

I will try to post a rough draft this week...

 

[Samloyal23]

From the Pathfinder SRD:

ICE SKATES
Price 1 gp; Weight 2 lbs.
Each of these calf-high boots bears a vertical blade on the bottom, allowing you to travel swiftly on ice. Wearing ice skates allows you to move on ice at normal speed with a successful DC 5 Acrobatics check (including running and charging), but your movement is reduced to half speed on all other terrain. Donning or removing an ice skate is a full-round action. Skating with only one is possible, but the DC of the Acrobatics check rises to 15.
SKIS
Price 5 gp; Weight 20 lb.
Each ski is a flat piece of wood about 5–6 feet long for a Medium wearer, curled up slightly at the front end, with lengthwise grooves along the underside and a wooden or metal bracket with laces on top for holding the wearer's boot in place. Wearing skis allows you to move on snow and ice at normal speed, but your movement is reduced to 5 feet on all other terrain. You normally use a pair of spiked poles to help you move and maintain balance while skiing, but javelins, shortspears, or even trimmed-down saplings will do if nothing else more suitable is available. Donning or removing a ski is a full-round action, though the laces can be cut as a move action (which requires repairing or replacing the laces if you want to use the skis again).
SNOWSHOES
Price 5 gp; Weight 4 lbs.
These high-tension nets of rope or sinew in wooden frames are lashed to the feet to spread your weight across the snow, making you much less likely to break through the crust and rendering walking much easier. Snowshoes reduce the penalty for walking through heavy snow by 50%; for example, if moving through snow normally costs you 2 squares of movement (1 square plus a 1 square penalty) per square traveled, snowshoes reduce this cost to 1.5 squares per square traveled. Snowshoes may supplement another outfit.

I am thinking there really needs to be skills for skating and skiing, but I have not found these anywhere. Still, this is a start...

 

[rgard]

I have a copy of Frost & Fur someplace. I'll dig it up and see if there is anything in it that could help.

 

[the Jester]

Don't expect too much. The environmental books in theory addressed a huge hole in the rules, and were cool looking but in practice I didn't find much of anything of value in them.

Whereas I found them to be some of the best splatbooks of the 3.5 cycle.

EDIT: It just goes to show you how different groups' experiences of the same material can be!

 

[Celebrim]

Whereas I found them to be some of the best splatbooks of the 3.5 cycle.

Not that that is saying much. To confuse the issue further, I actually agree. But that's mostly because the overall level of quality in 3.5 was so low, and the environment books at least addressed what I felt was a real need - albeit not nearly as well as they could have.

I personally feel they could have condensed them all down to a single "Wilderness Survival Guide" with more meat and less filler. And to the extent that they covered other topics I found important - say ships in 'Stormwrack' - they didn't cover them with what I thought was sufficient depth. Again, too much filler, not enough crunch. The number of pages I would have actually used from each book couldn't justify the price for me.

EDIT: It just goes to show you how different groups' experiences of the same material can be!

Yes. It's quite possible that books I would have found 100% useful, others would have found too esoteric to have much use.

 

[Samloyal23]

Okay, let us start small. What tweaking does the Pathfinder equipment need, if any for 3.5E? Changing the Acrobatics check to a Balance skill check is what I see right off the bat, any other changes that need to be made?

 

[Samloyal23]

So, the book Adrenalin d20 has rules for skateboarding that it also applies to surfing and snowboarding. Yahoo! I love this supplement! It even has rules for skydiving! Woohoo!

Surfing and Snowboarding:
To keep things nice, simple and fast moving, assume that snowboarding and surfing work identically to skate-boarding in their environment. Any skater feats you’ve earned work just as well along the coast or high up in the mountains as they do on the asphalt.

Board Slam
You’ve incorporated your love for skateboarding into your martial arts style, using your deck like an improvised club as often as you use it as a vehicle. Prerequisite: Balance 8 ranks, Spring Attack Benefit: You’re so shockingly fast that you can kick out your board, slam it hard into an enemy as you pass, and catch the board, all as part of a single seamless action. Once per round, you may make an additional attack, at your highest base attack bonus, against an adjacent enemy in conjunction with your move action. Your board is considered an improvised weapon, inflicting a –4 penalty on the attack roll, and inflicts 1d8 points of damage.

Board Shield
When things are at their worst, and you’re dodging bullets, you can use your board as a shield in a last ditch effort to save your ass. Prerequisite: Defensive Martial Arts, Mobility, Balance 8 ranks Benefit: Once per round, as a free action made in response to an incoming attack, you can attempt a risky DC 25 Balance check to twist your body and kick up your board to intercept an incoming physical attack (such as a fist, a sword thrust or a sniper’s bullet), effectively parrying the assault with your board. You must be aware of the attack and not helpless or prevented from moving to use this feat. If the check is successful, the board suffers the attack, possibly negating some damage due to its hardness. If the check fails or if the attack destroys the board, you drop prone. If the Balance check fails, you suffer the effects of the attack normally. You may choose to activate after the attack roll is made but before damage is rolled.

Skatemonkey
You’re adept at launching into precarious heights on your board, and mix climbing, inverts and spectacular leaps when you need to go over something. Prerequisite: Climb 4 ranks, Balance 8 ranks Benefit: If you begin a climb my making a board mounted Jump check to catch a high target, like a hanging fire escape or a ledge, you may add your Dexterity modifier as an untyped bonus to your Climb check. When climbing in conjunction with a board mounted stunts, you may move at full speed (accelerated climbing) without a –5 penalty. Normal: You suffer a –5 penalty when climbing at full speed.

Skater Tricks
It’s not cheating if it works. You can use your board to trick, trip, baffle, irritate, confuse, humiliate, humble and generally screw over your opponents. Prerequisite: Balance 8 ranks, Improved Trip or Improved Disarm. Benefit: While on your board, may make a DC 22 Balance check prior to making any Disarm or Trip attempt. If the check succeeds, you may add the degree of success as an untyped bonus to your next Disarm or Trip attempt. Thus, if you rolled a 24, you would receive a +2 bonus on your next Disarm or Trip attempt. If the Balance check fails, you drop prone beside your board.

Wall Grind
When you’ve gotta move, you do it fast, with incredible athleticism and come at your opponent from unexpected angles. Prerequisite: Balance 4 ranks, Tumble 4 ranks, Athletic. Benefit: When you charge on your board, your movement need not be in a straight line. You may dodge agilely around obstacles, grind on walls, convent rails, incorporating a dizzying series of short hops and acrobatic tricks. You still cannot charge through opponents square. Normal: You can only use the charge action when moving in a straight line.

Paratrooper snow dwarves on patrol!