D&D 5E So 5th edition is coming soon

[triqui]

I think there should be an end to the whole series of editions. Just make a basic core rules set that is easy enough for anyone to play and then periodically release expansions that add new mechanics and complexity that fundamentally alter the way the game is played. It would keep the things fresh without having to re-write the book, so to speak. All expansions being optional of course.

Other than new mechanics, each expansion should include new settings, monsters, magical items, adventures, etc. It should also follow a larger storyline that stretches out over time.

Team D&D needs to take a few cues from those Wizards across the hall.

While I can see a benefit on that for us the gamers, I cant see the point for the company. It would be a huge economic failure. Unless you suggest DnD should become a non profit organization, or linked to UN or receive a subsidy from the goverment like Red Cross does, the developers make a living from developing.

 

[Canor Morum]

While I can see a benefit on that for us the gamers, I cant see the point for the company. It would be a huge economic failure. Unless you suggest DnD should become a non profit organization, or linked to UN or receive a subsidy from the goverment like Red Cross does, the developers make a living from developing.

You may have misunderstood. There would be a core set of rules that wouldn't change (basic attributes, the d20 mechanic, etc.) with additional rules and options that are continually developed over time. Developers could try out new ideas and alter the core rules using an exception based design without it becoming permanent or binding.

That's not much different than the way it is now. Except designers could be more creative and take risks without fearing a backlash from the community.

Think modular. No more editions, just core D&D and whatever expansions you choose to incorporate.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I jsut do not see how that would work indefinitely. For a few years perhaps, but how would it work for longer?

And actually, how is this different form how 4E is done now? We have the PHB books, and over the last 3 years a lot has been released that stands on top of those books. It can be used or ignored.

Even Essentials is a variation on the game.

How would you arrange this to be better and still profitable for the company?

 

[triqui]

You may have misunderstood. There would be a core set of rules that wouldn't change (basic attributes, the d20 mechanic, etc.) with additional rules and options that are continually developed over time. Developers could try out new ideas and alter the core rules using an exception based design without it becoming permanent or binding.

That's not much different than the way it is now. Except designers could be more creative and take risks without fearing a backlash from the community.

Think modular. No more editions, just core D&D and whatever expansions you choose to incorporate.

I did understand. What you did not, though, is the economical implications of that. When you publish a game, there are "Tiers" for those books.

Books in tier 1 are the core books. Every one buy those. There are virtually no D&D groups that do not own at least one copy of the Player Handbook, Monster Manual and Dungeon Master Guide (baring piracy, that is), and probably a lot of groups have more than one copy of the Player Handbook.

Tier 2 are the common player options. Things like "Martial Power", or Player Handbook 2, cater to a great degree of your player base, but not all. Regardless of your group setting prefference, you probably would like to have a splatbook with some extra options for your core classes.

Tier 3 are settings, pure optional books, and theme books. A group of players that play in Forgotten Realms probably won't buy "Eberron's player guide" or "Dangers of Dark Sun Desserts". Optional rulings, like Unearthed Arcana, non-core class (as in: non in the first book) extra options -like "Psionic Handbook"- appeal, by definition, to a smaller amount of players than the core books. Beyond certain number, sequels of core books fall into this: PHB3 cover much less "needed" classes and races than PHB2. While there were people out there *waiting* for Bards, Barbarians and Gnomes, probably not a lot of them were desperate to have Ardents, Battleminds and Wildens. Specific thematic books (such as "guide to Cormyr" opposite to "guide to Faerun") get even less atention


So if you sell 100 PHB, that mean you would sell 70 "martial power" and"PHB2", and only 50 "Forgotten Realms Player Guide" and "psionic handbooks", and only 10 "Who is who in Waterdeep".

Past a point, the only way to keep the money flow, is to make people to buy the core book once again.

Not only that: from a design point of view, it's impossible to make one single edition "perfect". So every 5, 10 years you need to revise the system, to include new "tecnhology" and game design ideas developed through the time. AD&D did not care about Rule Consistency, becouse the term did not even exist in 1980, while 3e did. Probably "angst" sourcebooks as Heroes of Shadows did not have any purpose in 1979, but have a great amount of audiency in 2011.

Plus you have the "glut" issue. No matter of what, once you have past a point, the system becomes unbearable, and it needs a reset. Just like every now and then DC Universe has a infinity crisis to clean up

Asking WotC not making new versions of D&D would be tantamount to asking Microsft not realeasing new versions of Windows, just Service Packs, or asking Apple not building new versions of iPhone, just OS updates.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I jsut do not see how that would work indefinitely. For a few years perhaps, but how would it work for longer?

And actually, how is this different form how 4E is done now? We have the PHB books, and over the last 3 years a lot has been released that stands on top of those books. It can be used or ignored.

Even Essentials is a variation on the game.

How would you arrange this to be better and still profitable for the company?

Sell only a portion of each expansion, just enough to whet the appetite and the consumor only get to rest by renting it via a digital subscription.

Personally I think that this was the grand plan for 4e but Gleemax was a croc of ... and so we not have this bastard hybrid.

 

[Canor Morum]

I did understand. What you did not, though, is the economical implications of that. When you publish a game, there are "Tiers" for those books.

Past a point, the only way to keep the money flow, is to make people to buy the core book once again.

Not only that: from a design point of view, it's impossible to make one single edition "perfect". So every 5, 10 years you need to revise the system, to include new "tecnhology" and game design ideas developed through the time.

Plus you have the "glut" issue. No matter of what, once you have past a point, the system becomes unbearable, and it needs a reset. Just like every now and then DC Universe has a infinity crisis to clean up

You are correct that the core would have to be revised every few years with errata and new art to stay current but not entirely rewritten. The divisions and edition wars start when the core is drastically changed, fracturing the audience. This avoids that.

Instead of trying to make it "perfect" by wiping the slate clean and starting over, the expansions that sold the best (were most popular) could be revisited and/or the crunch compiled into a single volume as a rules addition every few years. So forth and so on. A kind of natural selection, if you will.

I'm not trying to argue this is a perfect solution by any means. Just throwing some ideas out there, looking for an alternative to the endless edition cycle. One that promotes many different styles of play through modular support.

 

[triqui]

Minor revisitions and errata won't sell enough, imho. It might work for a Indie RPG small business (and I doubt it, since even small RPG companies make several editions as well. Legend of the Five Rings, Deadlands or Shadowrun are all of them in the 4th edition as well), but won't cut it for a big company like WotC. The fixed costs are too high.

The edition war was not becouse a new edition went out, but becouse it was so drastic that caused a shift in the paradigm. Arcane not being more powerful than martials was the biggest change on it, and the slaughtering of a few sacred cows also did. The fracture between 2e and 3e was not that high, although 2e was feeling *dead* by that time (with TSR bankrupty and all), so the situation is different.

DDI subscription might be a way, as ardoughter suggested. But even then, cycles of editions would be needed.

Now I think about it, I currently see 2 kind of game companies: those that managed to make sucessfull 2nd and 3rd editions of their games (like AEG), and those that went to bankrupcy.

 

[TwoSix]

You are correct that the core would have to be revised every few years with errata and new art to stay current but not entirely rewritten. The divisions and edition wars start when the core is drastically changed, fracturing the audience. This avoids that.

Instead of trying to make it "perfect" by wiping the slate clean and starting over, the expansions that sold the best (were most popular) could be revisited and/or the crunch compiled into a single volume as a rules addition every few years. So forth and so on. A kind of natural selection, if you will.

I'm not trying to argue this is a perfect solution by any means. Just throwing some ideas out there, looking for an alternative to the endless edition cycle. One that promotes many different styles of play through modular support.

I have no doubt that Wizards would LOVE to figure out how to market D&D like they do Magic. I think there are just too many differences in the way the games are played to support that. At the most basic of levels, Magic is a competitive game, and D&D is cooperative. People are always more willing to buy stuff that gives them a competitive edge. Also, Magic has a large external network supporting tournament play that enforces rules that pretty much mandate constant upgrades.

 

[erleni]

or "Dangers of Dark Sun Desserts".

Mmmm... a book about food poisoning is really a niche one. Don't think it will sell much...

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I think there should be an end to the whole series of editions. Just make a basic core rules set that is easy enough for anyone to play and then periodically release expansions that add new mechanics and complexity that fundamentally alter the way the game is played. It would keep the things fresh without having to re-write the book, so to speak. All expansions being optional of course.

Other than new mechanics, each expansion should include new settings, monsters, magical items, adventures, etc. It should also follow a larger storyline that stretches out over time.

Team D&D needs to take a few cues from those Wizards across the hall.

You mean something like an edition where the core rules have a unified resolution mechanism that covers all eventualities but allows for more specific specialized ways to handle things and gain expertise at doing specific tricks? One that allows a whole range of different classes to be added to it, etc?

Yeah, they should retire 3.5 and create something like that. I know, they could call it 4th Edition! Seriously, I think WotC has no plans to ever retire it, just make new compatible stuff. PHB1 gets mostly forgotten about (but still usable). Essentials reworks a few things, then there can be yet another reprinting of the next batch of compatible rules and classes in 2-3 more years.