So... about sunder...

[Zurai]

I've never seen it used in any 3.x game I've ever run or played in...

Why would you destroy potential treasure?

Because it makes it a lot easier to get at the rest of the treasure when the spiked chain specialist is minus a chain? (for a quick, easy example)

 

[Tetsubo]

Because it makes it a lot easier to get at the rest of the treasure when the spiked chain specialist is minus a chain? (for a quick, easy example)

Well, so long as you are destroying a spiked chain, I don't have a problem with the ability... but *real* weapons often have a resale value...

 

[timbannock]

You can kill it by sundering the heads off and sealing the wounds with fire or acid damage, if you don't then two heads grow where one use to be. Considering they have loads of fast healing this probably a better way to do it than destroying the body like we did.

Check my thread in the Rules section.

My party of 12th and 13th level characters killed a 12-headed pyrohydra in two rounds, with just two characters (a paladin and a monk) attacking the body. The amount of damage they dished out was completely ridiculous (they were prepared for the fight, and the cleric buffed them up big time).

I'm still miffed about it.

Anyway, the point is that sundering the heads is a great option *if the PCs can sunder well.* If they are just uber-damage-out-putting-smashy-types, the Fast Healing probably won't be enough to catch up to the damage taken. YMMV

 

[Bagpuss]

Depends if you are fighting in a difficult terrain with a river for it to retreat into, meaning your heavy hitters can never get a full attack (lucky to get even one sometimes) because even a 5ft step is actually 10ft move, while it can always attack with all it's heads even when it moves.

 

[Darklone]

Depends if you are fighting in a difficult terrain with a river for it to retreat into, meaning your heavy hitters can never get a full attack (lucky to get even one sometimes) because even a 5ft step is actually 10ft move, while it can always attack with all it's heads even when it moves.

Then it's time to call in artillery.

 

[Notmousse]

Then it's time to call in artillery.

Fireball 'em from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

 

[blargney the second]

My DM just tried out sunder for the first time last night in an encounter of 2 hill giant barbarians vs 3 fifth level PCs. He did a whopping 5 points of damage to my greatsword, and I was quite happy that my sword took that hit rather than my character.

 

[Jhaelen]

So far I (as a DM) only used it against the players when they were fighting a treant. Treants are pretty good at sundering things and I think it's quite in character for them to have a certain degree of hatred against slashing weapons like axes...

 

[Lord Zardoz]

Does anyone actually use Sunder?

Sunder is actually very effective if you build a character around using in. With the 3.5 Power Attack giving you 2 for 1 on Bab to Damage when using a 2 handed weapon, and the easy to hit AC for a held weapon (10 + wpn Size modifier), it is very easy to wreck a non magical Weapon, especially if the object is not metal.

As a Dm, I have used it once, with a Half Ogre Barbarian NPC. At a full power attack with a Great Axe, the damage output while raging was 1d12+22 (6th level Barbarian, starting Str of 19). Very good for destroying hafted weapons, bows, and the like. And still viable for taking out a sword.

The cheese factor only starts to creep in if Adamantine items can be purchased. Being able to bypass item hardness will let you destroy any object with near impunity.

Strategically, Sunder is really only effective for creatures that have a very high damage output using 2 handed weapons. Against characters who are built around a particular weapon, like specialists or a particular magic weapon, the tactic can greately harm the damage output. It is also worth doing to Shields if you can take out 3 or 4 points of an opponents AC. Its biggest loss is that Sunder is a Standard action, not an attack. You only get to do it once per round. The upshot is that it is effectively inexorable. As long as you can keep landing hits, you WILL destroy the weapon in question. There is also no opposed roll, and if you have the Feat, you cannot be interrupted. Lastly, you cannot lose your weapon for trying a Sunder

For comparison, Disarm is not at all dependent on damage output, and it is an attack action, so you can use your iterative attacks or your AoO's to Disarm. But it is an opposed roll, and even if it works, your opponent can just use a Move Action to pick up the weapon (at the cost of an AoO). And if you fail the opposed roll, you can lose your own weapon.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Darklone]

The cheese factor only starts to creep in if Adamantine items can be purchased. Being able to bypass item hardness will let you destroy any object with near impunity.

Any object with hardness less than 20. That's why mithral weapons should have enhancement +3 if you can't get an adamant weapon yourself.