So, how will Primordials be treated/used in relation to PCs?

[AFGNCAAP]

Since the concept of Primordials was introduced in 4e (esp. in their role vs. the deities, ala the Titans v. the Olympians or the Jotuns v. the Aesir), I've wondered how they'd be portrayed further, and how this would work in relation to the PCs (esp. considering the "primal" power source).

For example, would the primordials be worshipped/revered like the deities (and thus, primal-powered PCs will be elementally-themed versions of divine-powered PCs)? Are all Primordials villainous (or will there be any Unaligned or Good Primordials)?

The genasi Dragon article, and the info about the FR Primordials (essentially the strongly elementally-oriented deities from FR like Kossuth) made me wonder about this.

Any ideas/info/insights on this?

 

[frankthedm]

Any ideas/info/insights on this?

look at 4E alignment & the monster manual. The Astral Gods are in control and writing the rules. Primordial sure seem to be portrayed singly as antagonists and anyone who sympathizes with them are branded as evil. Just look how swift the gensai article was to vilify primordial supporters.

 

[The Little Raven]

Well, the highest-level threat listed in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide is a Level 33 Solo Primordial (yes, Primordial is his monster role), so I'd say they're just big jerks who we can kill to take their stuff.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

look at 4E alignment & the monster manual. The Astral Gods are in control and writing the rules. Primordial sure seem to be portrayed singly as antagonists and anyone who sympathizes with them are branded as evil. Just look how swift the gensai article was to vilify primordial supporters.

Somehow, this article spawned an interesting idea in me - maybe this approach is fundamentally flawed. As long as Primordials and Gods, Good and Evil, Chaos and Good keep fighting, there will be always war and conflict, and either side will suffer.

Maybe the goal of an epic tier should be to have the Primordials and the Gods come to a peaceful agreement...

 

[Staffan]

look at 4E alignment & the monster manual. The Astral Gods are in control and writing the rules. Primordial sure seem to be portrayed singly as antagonists and anyone who sympathizes with them are branded as evil. Just look how swift the gensai article was to vilify primordial supporters.

The FRCG seems a bit more vague on the topic, presenting Akadi, Grumbar, Kossuth, and Istishia as Unaligned.

 

[frankthedm]

I just find it disappointing the treatment of the Primordials is so one sided. Maybe wotc has some plan to make their plot a bit more interesting, but right now, everything tied to them portrays them as “The Adversary”. Which is just redundant since 4E D&D already has Devils, Demons and Far Realm Aberrants available to be“100% Bad Guys”.

What I’d love to see is the gods portrayed as conspirators who coveted the creations of the Primordials. All the gods, not just Tharizdun, knew about the “Seed of Evil” and Its dangers, but it was Tharizdun who volunteered or was chosen to hurl the seed into the Elemental maelstrom in attempt to weaken the Primordials. His corruption was his sacrifice for the god’s Alpha Strike

IIRC wotc said druids were being moved away from their focus on the four elements, and more nature and fae which I suspect is to prevent “Gods Vs. Primordials” interparty strife.

The FRCG seems a bit more vague on the topic, presenting Akadi, Grumbar, Kossuth, and Istishia as Unaligned.

Are those Gods or Primordials?

The Primordials
A controversial subject among the genasi is that of the primordials. The ancient elemental beings known as the primordials are rivals to the gods themselves, and many genasi are well aware of this fact. Some genasi revere the primordials as though they were gods, conferring worship upon them in secret. These genasi believe that they were created to serve the primordials and spread chaos, and, as a result, this reverence for elemental forces takes the place of religion in their lives. Particularly zealous followers of this belief even seek to make pacts with beings of Elemental Chaos to bring themselves one step closer to the primordials.

Worse yet, a few misguided souls even seek out the Elder Elemental Eye, Tharizdun. These genasi are typically among the most evil and chaotic of their race, and some would argue insane, since they seek the means to free Tharizdun and unleash his destructive power upon the world. These misguided genasi think that Tharizdun placed them on the world, and that they were created when the Chained God strained against his restraints long enough to touch the world. They believe that the genasi race is a remnant of his awesome power, and that they were created at the moment he touched the world with the intent that they become his liberators.

At the same time, genasi see the primordials as beings of great evil and destructive power. These genasi revile the primordials, believing that the conflict within themselves (that between Elemental Chaos and mortal order) embodies a great struggle in the universe. Since the genasi are mortal, they place themselves on the opposite side of the struggle from the primordials. These genasi believe that it is the duty of the genasi to harness the power of chaos and tame its destructive power, while the primordials continue to try to tear down these good works.

 

[Shroomy]

Are those Gods or Primordials?

They're specifically mentioned as being Primordials that are worshipped by mortals. FYI, Rorn, the Level 33 Primordial that is statted up in the FRCG, also has an alignment of "Unaligned."

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Are those Gods or Primordials?

They were described as always being Primordials. Those four in particular being unaligned, with Aedrie Faenya described as being the Elven incarnation of Istishia. In fact Istishia, Grumbar, Kossuth and Akadi seem to be the only Primordials so far described in any positive terms.

 

[frankthedm]

They're specifically mentioned as being Primordials that are worshipped by mortals. FYI, Rorn, the Level 33 Primordial that is statted up in the FRCG, also has an alignment of "Unaligned."

Very Interesting. Though that makes me wonder whether that is "intentionally different for the Realms" or if the Gensai article was written before that part of the FRCG was decided on.

 

[Mercule]

look at 4E alignment & the monster manual. The Astral Gods are in control and writing the rules. Primordial sure seem to be portrayed singly as antagonists and anyone who sympathizes with them are branded as evil. Just look how swift the gensai article was to vilify primordial supporters.

And the only dragons in the MM are evil, too. I think we'll have to wait and see.

My thoughts, though, are that the primordials tend towards evil mainly because they're vexed with the current order, and have been for long enough to transform from indignant to destructive. I think it would be quite interesting to have a number of good (or, at least, not evil) primordials presented in other books.