Desdichado
Legend
JM---wow, I really like that idea.
So, how will Primordials be treated/used in relation to PCs?
- Thread starter AFGNCAAP
- Start date
Reminds me of Dark Sun, where fire priests were told by their elemental patrons to encourage the growth of things like cities and forests... so they'd have something to burn.
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
Seconded!
Starbuck_II
Explorer
Exactly, a hurricane is like a woman. Both have times of the month when they act badly due to environment changes.
Nifft
Penguin Herder
Hurricanes have a Strength penalty? 
(But seriously: hurricanes have a time of YEAR when they're unreasonable, not month.)
Cheers, -- N
Mercule
Adventurer
So... They are evil, then.
Nahat Anoj
First Post
Thanks, Hobo and Mustrum Ridcully. I think it would be cool if Tharizdun was originally a basically decent, well-meaning god. His side was losing to the Primordials, so he set out across the planes to find a means to fight back. At this stage I imagine him a sort of wandering mendicant, like a monk or priest seeking wisdom in the wild regions of the world. Tharizdun's travels would have taken him across the Feywild, the darkest depths of the Shadowfell, and the farthest reaches of the Astral Sea. Perhaps in the Shadowfell he sought out the Raven Queen, who gave him cryptic advice - "The answer lies with sages in worlds beyond fate."
His travels may have then taken him to the Far Realm, finding the Seed of Evil there. Alternatively (and this is my preference), he encountered some inscrutable, sagely aberration who said "Find the weapon you seek within yourself." Tharizdun (mis?)understood this to be the Seed of Evil, so he condensed all his hate, rage, and urge to destroy into a tiny little package. He then planted this seed into the Abyss and watched it grow. Perhaps he derived a ghastly pleasure from seeing the Abyss consume the Elemental Chaos. Or perhaps he was so horrified by what he done that he snapped, thinking that the best way to save the universe from this ineffable evil was to destroy it utterly (again, I kind of like this one).
I think it would be interesting to play with the players's heads during the course of a campaign against Tharizdun, at least giving them false leads that Tharizdun may be right.
The account of Tharizdun's fall to madness would be well-studied by his devotees. I think it would be damnable book of maddening wisdom, like the Necronomicon. I don't know what to call it. The Tome of Ineffable Evil? The Book of Vile Darkness? I'm torn between using a name from D&D lore or making one up.
His travels may have then taken him to the Far Realm, finding the Seed of Evil there. Alternatively (and this is my preference), he encountered some inscrutable, sagely aberration who said "Find the weapon you seek within yourself." Tharizdun (mis?)understood this to be the Seed of Evil, so he condensed all his hate, rage, and urge to destroy into a tiny little package. He then planted this seed into the Abyss and watched it grow. Perhaps he derived a ghastly pleasure from seeing the Abyss consume the Elemental Chaos. Or perhaps he was so horrified by what he done that he snapped, thinking that the best way to save the universe from this ineffable evil was to destroy it utterly (again, I kind of like this one).
I think it would be interesting to play with the players's heads during the course of a campaign against Tharizdun, at least giving them false leads that Tharizdun may be right.
The account of Tharizdun's fall to madness would be well-studied by his devotees. I think it would be damnable book of maddening wisdom, like the Necronomicon. I don't know what to call it. The Tome of Ineffable Evil? The Book of Vile Darkness? I'm torn between using a name from D&D lore or making one up.
Baron Opal
First Post
The Codex of the Infiniate Planes
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
One idea I like is that only Tharizdun act brought evil to the world - the conflict was between chaos and good originally, but it has become less important once evil arrived. The universe might even have been very different if evil was not a cosmic force, something we might not even understand (as we live in a world evil is part of?).
So, the final goal is not to kill off all Primordials, or to destroy all Demons and Devils. It is to find this seed of evil, and destroy it. The only way to achieve this is:
- Free Tharizdun, as he is the only that can find/reach the original seed
- Convince all the major powers - Demons, Devils, Gods, Primordials, to aid you
- Someone (any of the above, the player characters) must sacrifice himself and destroy the seed.
Once it has gone, the alignments just go away. There is no more Chaotic Evil or Lawful Good - they could only existed in a Universe that contained the seed (thrown into the "camp" of Chaos). Chaos and Law remain, and maybe they can work in harmony, Chaos responsible for creation or destruction of new things (worlds, stars, races, people), Law for maintaining it. There will be a cycle between chaos and law for all time - worlds are created by chaos, law maintains them for a while, but there will always come an end, where they are destroyed again in chaos, to start the next cycle.
Races that were typically evil no longer are - they are unaligned, and can turn to either side, but the "maniac" or dedicated evil is gone. The individual evil persons to do to each other might still exist, but they are lessened, and are not the result of some cosmic influence, but the result of misunderstanding or egoismn and can be overcome.
So, the final goal is not to kill off all Primordials, or to destroy all Demons and Devils. It is to find this seed of evil, and destroy it. The only way to achieve this is:
- Free Tharizdun, as he is the only that can find/reach the original seed
- Convince all the major powers - Demons, Devils, Gods, Primordials, to aid you
- Someone (any of the above, the player characters) must sacrifice himself and destroy the seed.
Once it has gone, the alignments just go away. There is no more Chaotic Evil or Lawful Good - they could only existed in a Universe that contained the seed (thrown into the "camp" of Chaos). Chaos and Law remain, and maybe they can work in harmony, Chaos responsible for creation or destruction of new things (worlds, stars, races, people), Law for maintaining it. There will be a cycle between chaos and law for all time - worlds are created by chaos, law maintains them for a while, but there will always come an end, where they are destroyed again in chaos, to start the next cycle.
Races that were typically evil no longer are - they are unaligned, and can turn to either side, but the "maniac" or dedicated evil is gone. The individual evil persons to do to each other might still exist, but they are lessened, and are not the result of some cosmic influence, but the result of misunderstanding or egoismn and can be overcome.
