Flexor the Mighty!
18/100 Strength!
DocMoriartty said:
This is true. It will be beefed up.
So I'm thinking of running Tomb of Horrors after RttTOEE
- Thread starter Flexor the Mighty!
- Start date
This is true. It will be beefed up.
Roland Delacroix
First Post
DocMoriartty said:
The greatest treasure is playing ToH and knowing you made it through alive. Thats more impressive than any artifact.
James McMurray
First Post
What, you mean there are things out there that party's can't automatically waffle-stomp? Egads!!! 
Actually, a demi-lich is very little trouble for a party of 15th level character. Or even a party of 11th level characters if their cleric has a bead of kharma. The reason is that the thing has so few hitpoints and such a miniscule AC that any fighter worth his salt should be able to deal 52 some-odd damage firly rapidly with the +5 weapon the cleric gives him.
Looking over the things that can harm it (note taht the Conversion has been toned down a bit, these are the originals):
Fighter-types with powerful weapons (easily gained via a friendly Cleric). Heck, if there is a Paladin in the group, there's a sword lying on the floor that can do normal damage to the thing. - normal damage
Dispel Evil is a pretty nice spell in its own right in an area where undead roam. - 5 damage
Holy Word should be a staple in any high elvel cleric's diet. - 20 damage
There is 16 points of damage available just lying on the floor. Granted, a thief (or anyone for that matter) will likely not elect to hurl a massive gem at the thing.
Shatter is actually a very useful spell when exploring an area rife with traps. If the mage thinks to cast it on the skull - 10 damage.
As for finding out the thing's weaknesses, maybe the party should flee after the first time they are stomped, then use Divination, Legend Lore, etc. to learn things about the creature? Then again, maybe I'm wrong and high level parties shouldn't be able to find things out like that.
Actually, a demi-lich is very little trouble for a party of 15th level character. Or even a party of 11th level characters if their cleric has a bead of kharma. The reason is that the thing has so few hitpoints and such a miniscule AC that any fighter worth his salt should be able to deal 52 some-odd damage firly rapidly with the +5 weapon the cleric gives him.
Looking over the things that can harm it (note taht the Conversion has been toned down a bit, these are the originals):
Fighter-types with powerful weapons (easily gained via a friendly Cleric). Heck, if there is a Paladin in the group, there's a sword lying on the floor that can do normal damage to the thing. - normal damage
Dispel Evil is a pretty nice spell in its own right in an area where undead roam. - 5 damage
Holy Word should be a staple in any high elvel cleric's diet. - 20 damage
There is 16 points of damage available just lying on the floor. Granted, a thief (or anyone for that matter) will likely not elect to hurl a massive gem at the thing.
Shatter is actually a very useful spell when exploring an area rife with traps. If the mage thinks to cast it on the skull - 10 damage.
As for finding out the thing's weaknesses, maybe the party should flee after the first time they are stomped, then use Divination, Legend Lore, etc. to learn things about the creature? Then again, maybe I'm wrong and high level parties shouldn't be able to find things out like that.
Flexor the Mighty!
18/100 Strength!
It's not the final encounter that will destroy the party, the journey there is a meat grinder.
Save yourself time. Instead of running the module, simply have each player roll 1d6 -- on a one, the character lives, on anything else, he dies. Actually, those odds are better than ToH; perhaps 1 on a d20 instead....
Seriously, if your players survived RTTOEE, they may have become attached to their characters -- and rightly so, after completing that mega-adventure. I would not run such a party through ToH, unless your gaming group has no problem with throwing away their characters. Maybe create a party specifically for Toh? Or, as someone else mentioned, run it as a dream/illusion/VR-type experience...
Seriously, if your players survived RTTOEE, they may have become attached to their characters -- and rightly so, after completing that mega-adventure. I would not run such a party through ToH, unless your gaming group has no problem with throwing away their characters. Maybe create a party specifically for Toh? Or, as someone else mentioned, run it as a dream/illusion/VR-type experience...
Voadam
Legend
Leopold said:
He said it was death trap after death trap and ending with a reward of the bad guy taking over a PC and the party not being able to hurt it or escape. He thought it was just a cruel excuse to kill a PC party.
This was while we were still in 1e. I have not seen it but I do know we never played paladins.
I heard from other friends who had played it that if you walk in any of the wrong entrances, auto-death.
Again, I have not played it or read it so all of this is hearsay.
Flexor the Mighty!
18/100 Strength!
This adventure seperates the sissy parties from the true heroes!
Maybe I'll put a staff of the Magi at the end along with something for the party archer, a +4 Mighty Composite Longbow.
Maybe I'll put a staff of the Magi at the end along with something for the party archer, a +4 Mighty Composite Longbow.
JacktheRabbit
Explorer
I have the module though I have not looked at it in a while. Couple more points.
1. None of the pregenerated characters carry gear that can hurt the demi-lich in the end.
2. At the very end of the module there is a +4 sword but it is laying with two other CURSED swords. What are the odds of finding the right one and using it?
3. Any monks, assasins or druids in the party (remember this is 1E) have NO ABILITY WHAT SO EVER to hurt the demilich in any way.
So the party has to hope the thief decides to sling gems (yeah I am sure that idea will just pop into his head) or the clerics and wizards have the right spells mem'd.
Without meta-knowledge I give a part about a 3% chance of winning this fight.
BTW, the beginning of the module says that demi-lichs are rare and that this one is not unique. So if the party really researches hard I guess they may have some ideas how to hurt it in advance.
One final thought, the soul draining ability of the Demi-lich grants no saving throw. So the first time it is touched the Mage of the party is gone and the second time the cleric is gone. so there goes most parties chances of destroying the creature.
1. None of the pregenerated characters carry gear that can hurt the demi-lich in the end.
2. At the very end of the module there is a +4 sword but it is laying with two other CURSED swords. What are the odds of finding the right one and using it?
3. Any monks, assasins or druids in the party (remember this is 1E) have NO ABILITY WHAT SO EVER to hurt the demilich in any way.
So the party has to hope the thief decides to sling gems (yeah I am sure that idea will just pop into his head) or the clerics and wizards have the right spells mem'd.
Without meta-knowledge I give a part about a 3% chance of winning this fight.
BTW, the beginning of the module says that demi-lichs are rare and that this one is not unique. So if the party really researches hard I guess they may have some ideas how to hurt it in advance.
One final thought, the soul draining ability of the Demi-lich grants no saving throw. So the first time it is touched the Mage of the party is gone and the second time the cleric is gone. so there goes most parties chances of destroying the creature.
Last edited:
Azimer the Mad
First Post
3E, Weapons, & the Demilich
I'd just thought I'd add my view of the "Hurting Acererak" question. The original module mentioned that +5 weapons were necessary. I think Paladins got it a little easier, but I don't remember the exact phrasing.
Anyway, when I converted it to 3rd Edition, I just read that as 5 "+s" worth of enchantments, not only a straight "+5." So the Rogue's +3 Lucky Dagger, could hit it as well as the Barbarian's +2 Keen Chaotic Greatsword. Since most of my party enchants their weapons with Surestrike, most of them could hit it. They did win over the Demilich, buit he killed five PCs and 2 NPCs, leaving only the Barbarian. That seems to me to be a balanced ending.
Oh, and about the thrown black gem that does damage? No one will probably ever figure that out. That's just some old crusty 1E tournament thinking held over. Any character that would need to rely on that gem would probably die in the first round anyway.
I'd just thought I'd add my view of the "Hurting Acererak" question. The original module mentioned that +5 weapons were necessary. I think Paladins got it a little easier, but I don't remember the exact phrasing.
Anyway, when I converted it to 3rd Edition, I just read that as 5 "+s" worth of enchantments, not only a straight "+5." So the Rogue's +3 Lucky Dagger, could hit it as well as the Barbarian's +2 Keen Chaotic Greatsword. Since most of my party enchants their weapons with Surestrike, most of them could hit it. They did win over the Demilich, buit he killed five PCs and 2 NPCs, leaving only the Barbarian. That seems to me to be a balanced ending.
Oh, and about the thrown black gem that does damage? No one will probably ever figure that out. That's just some old crusty 1E tournament thinking held over. Any character that would need to rely on that gem would probably die in the first round anyway.
Imperialus
Explorer
even a really heavy rollplaying party would have a lot of trouble it the ToH, perhaps moreso than a Hack and Slash one in many ways. I once wiped out an entire party in the first hallway because they had a philosophy of leaveing no one behind. They always tried to retrive bodies no matter what. A hack and slash party typically doesn't have the party loyalty to risk their own lives to save another party members corpse. It isn't even so much role playing as it is problem solveing, and I've seen several hack and slash groups that are very very good at that. Just because you attack on sight doesn't mean you nessesarally attack innanimate objects.
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