D&D 5E so, mountain dwarf wizards...

[Dausuul]

Or you could just, you know, roll a cleric.

Don't get me wrong -- I love the idea of an armored dwarf wizard, but what you've just described is a cleric.

Well, if you wanted to do things the sensible way...

It's actually a bit different from a cleric though. Wizards have a wider array of utility magic and stronger battlefield control, but are weaker at buffs and defense. The dwarf axe-wizard would be more tactical support, less healer.

 

[doctorhook]

What was meant was that you will be behind other Wizards who focus on spell casting since your stats are spread more thinly. So the Dwarven "Spell Hammer" (I love this concept and name) will probably lose to the Elven Wizard on simple numbers alone. However in a situation where someone charges the Spell Hammer....they will be unpleasantly surprised at what they meet.

I can't disagree with you on any of your points, but I think "stats spread thin" and "los[ing]...on simple numbers alone" need more context. My impression is that a 5E character is punished far less heavily for not maxing her primary stat than in any previous edition, including 4E.

An 18 Int wizard versus a 20 Int wizard at the same level will cast the same number spells per day, with only a 5% (read: minor) drop in spell effectiveness (DC and attack), one fewer point of damage as an evoker, and a grand total of one fewer spell prepared each day. All said and done, I consider this to be a fairly insignificant difference that wouldn't likely be noticed at the table.

That is SO not a weakness to me - that's a huge bonus. I would LOVE to not feel like I have to play an elven wizard or halfling rogue because the mechanics are too strong to ignore. It's great that you can - and of course you'll always be able to - but making the archetypes strong just means that's all you see.

Certainly. There's no reason to enforce archetypes being more powerful than outlier characters, but that said D&D is still searching for a nice, flexible sweet-spot between enforcing archetypes completely and not having any archetypes at all. I'd like to see some rule (or meta-rule) that would be an easily DM-adjustable mechanical incentive for players to play either more archetypical or more exotic combinations without hindering characters of the other type. I guess I'm imagining some kind of "archetype-only" and "outlier-only" backgrounds, or possibly something like the inspiration mechanic. I'm just brainstorming here.

OH! Great idea here: 5E will need artificers with Eberron. Thematically, artificer would make a great subclass/tradition of wizard, with the added benefit of being the missing thematic link between dwarven item creation and scientific study of magic. Bonus points for precedent, because dwarves were always well-represented among artificers.

That's brilliant! XP for you.

 

[The Black Ranger]

Not sure if anyone has said this, but the reason why the armour proficiency is so great is because a mountain dwarf wizard gets to keep his spell slots for other spells while the others have to use up a spell slot to cast Mage Armour.

In 5e, you need all the defense and HP you can get, also concentration is based on Constitution so that's another plus for the dwarf.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Ray of frost at level 5: 2d8 damage --> average 9
Battleaxe at level 5, with Str 18: 1d8+4 damage --> average 8.5

Battleaxe used two handed (no shield proficiency) = 1d10+4 --> average 9.5

I expect other spells will appear in the PHB or later that will also appeal to a melee wizard (True Strike or equivalent, anyone?).

Not to mention additional bonuses from magic weapons and armor.

 

[GrumpyGamer]

Thematically I have always liked the idea that dwarven runes could contain magical power. While a dwarf wizard would not be my first choice I am glad it is a viable selection.

The image of a dwarf exploring a dungeon while his armor glows with runes, marking the power of his prepared spells, is a great one in my mind.. hard to paint... but a great image.

 

[Joe Liker]

Regarding the elf-vs-dwarf debate, as has been hinted above, a dwarf (or anyone else) could focus more on spells that do not require high Intelligence if it's a stat they don't care to worry about.

Magic missile, sleep, and a spellbook full of buffs and utilities can take you very far in the world, especially if you tailor your spell list to the strengths and weaknesses of your party.

 

[evilbob]

I just have this idea for this guy at 1st level, a dwarf wizard who acts more like a fighter. Has the soldier background. I'm thinking he's naturally adept at magic which made him an oddity. Maybe his parents forced him into the army. Maybe he actually found his spellbook in the attic tries to hide his magic use.

As he levels he's going to have to come to terms with this. Maybe he embraces his wizardling ways. Or maybe he continues to try to split the difference and he multiclasses in fighter. Hopefully that's a viable option now!

Love it! Great character ideas from just the race/class alone!

 

[Xodis]

I can't disagree with you on any of your points, but I think "stats spread thin" and "los[ing]...on simple numbers alone" need more context. My impression is that a 5E character is punished far less heavily for not maxing her primary stat than in any previous edition, including 4E.

An 18 Int wizard versus a 20 Int wizard at the same level will cast the same number spells per day, with only a 5% (read: minor) drop in spell effectiveness (DC and attack), one fewer point of damage as an evoker, and a grand total of one fewer spell prepared each day. All said and done, I consider this to be a fairly insignificant difference that wouldn't likely be noticed at the table.

With that I certainly agree, but with a strict comparison, you can see that it does fall behind somewhat, which is what I meant. Taking into account the Elven Wizard also has the improved Dex, which will be helpful against the more damaging spells even if the Dwarven Wizard can take a little more damage. This was also taken into account spreading stats thinly even more with a Wizard who really likes to get into the shuffle of melee with his weapon aka "Spell Hammer". I think this edition really pushes to help make character concepts be unique and stay playable. A Min/Max player probably wants a Elven Wizard, but the Dwarven Spell Hammer isn't going to be so far behind in damage that the concept of the character is destroyed by the mechanics.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I've never thought of "spellcasting in armor" as a system balance mechanism-- and it's quite obviously not, since it's been "broken" by both clerics and elven chain since the inception-- but rather as a bit of system designed (punitively) to enforce tropes of the genre.

 

[andreww]

With that I certainly agree, but with a strict comparison, you can see that it does fall behind somewhat, which is what I meant. Taking into account the Elven Wizard also has the improved Dex, which will be helpful against the more damaging spells even if the Dwarven Wizard can take a little more damage. This was also taken into account spreading stats thinly even more with a Wizard who really likes to get into the shuffle of melee with his weapon aka "Spell Hammer". I think this edition really pushes to help make character concepts be unique and stay playable. A Min/Max player probably wants a Elven Wizard, but the Dwarven Spell Hammer isn't going to be so far behind in damage that the concept of the character is destroyed by the mechanics.

Actually I think it is the other way around. The dwarf is probably the stronger mechanical choice. You end up with better AC until level 12 when the elf matches you using Mage Armour and 18 dex. They beat you by a point at level 16 if they boost their dex to 20 but only when Mage Armour is up. The elf is ahead by a point of Int until level 12 when the dwarf catches up but the dwarf is ahead by 2hp/level if you are using the array.

So at lower levels you have better survivability at the cost of one prepared spell (which the elf pretty much has to use on Mage Armour), 1 point of DC and 1 point value in Int skills. The elf has a 1 point bonus on initiative. If heavy armour mastery is in as a feat then the comparison becomes even more skewed.

Personally the dwarf wizard may be my favourite fantasy archetype and if I ever get a chance to play as opposed to run then it will definitely be my first pick.