D&D 5E So...Multiattack

[Mephistopheles]

I think the rationale behind Mearls's position on this may be thematic rather than rules based. There are some monsters that have grappling as their thing: these monsters can grapple as part of their attack actions and can use those attacks as part of their Multiattack routines (for example, chuuls, chain devils, ropers, or shambling mounds which grapple and then engulf only if both attacks in their Multiattack hit). Perhaps the intent is to have grappling associated with certain monsters in a thematic way, rather than every fight turning into a grapplefest?

Having said that, I don't agree or disagree with either interpretation; go with whatever you prefer.

 

[doctorhook]

I see. The PHB reads that you can only try grapple or shoving with one attack using the Attack action, not all of them. You sill get your other attacks if you do a shove or grapple, just not multiple grapple or shove attempts. That is sensible.

I agree it's sensible, but it bodes ill for my melee players. I've been allowing non-Battlemaster fighters to replace one of their attacks with a "special attack": disarm, shove, or distract/help, all from the PH. I want even non-Battlemasters to have cool tactical moves they can use in melee; this hardly stomps on the Battlemaster, because maneuvers are greatly superior versions of these types of moves. I don't imagine a high level Champion fighter would often give up all of his attacks in one round just to use shove.

 

[Rocksome]

I think it makes more sense (and is a balancing factor) for creatures like the T-Rex which get to attack with one bite and one tail, especially if you consider the use for PCs using polymorph. If you compare the T-Rex (CR8) to the Giant Ape (CR7) the T-Tex's bite does significantly more damage but can only attack once with it and once with it's much weaker tail. Two bite attacks would make a T-Red incredibly nasty for that CR and especially nasty in the hands of a polymorphed PC.

 

[Sunseeker]

I think it makes more sense (and is a balancing factor) for creatures like the T-Rex which get to attack with one bite and one tail, especially if you consider the use for PCs using polymorph. If you compare the T-Rex (CR8) to the Giant Ape (CR7) the T-Tex's bite does significantly more damage but can only attack once with it and once with it's much weaker tail. Two bite attacks would make a T-Red incredibly nasty for that CR and especially nasty in the hands of a polymorphed PC.

The way Multiattack works I think, matters most when it comes down to how intelligent the creature is. A T-Rex is big, and angry, but not very bright. Bob the Ranger polymorphed into a T-Rex is big, angry but also pretty bright and generally understands tactical fighting.

It makes sense for a Dragon, which is basically a smart dinosaur with wings to do the smart thing each round. It likewise makes sense for the T-rex to do the Hulk Smash! thing every round with little concern for strategy.

 

[Rocksome]

But a PC polymorphed into a T-Rex has the same intelligence as a T-Rex.

 

[KarinsDad]

I'm not big on changing PHB rules since the players have to follow those rules, but monster rules are more guidelines then rules to me. I change monsters and their abilities up all of the time. More power to the monsters if they can knock a PC prone and then claw him.

 

[CapnZapp]

I think it's much more interesting when Multiattack is read as allowing a certain number of attacks per turn instead of only allowing specific attacks per turn, but I understand there are some balance issues with the former, given that a dragon could say, make 3 bite attacks, which do superior damage to claw attacks. I think there's certainly some situations where that is appropriate, but there's a real danger of power-gaming monsters, which may be appropriate for certain tables and situations, but using the best options isn't always the best option.

However, I use the "bonus action" for a lot of checks for monsters, it doesn't explicitly say they don't have it and it certainly powers them up a bit to be able to attack AND make checks.

I won't comment on your home game; as long as your players have fun etc.

But "it doesn't explicitly say they don't have it" is plain wrong about the bonus action.

You NEVER get to use a bonus action. EXCEPT when you have a feature or ability that says you do.

This doesn't mean you need fancy class levels or magic items. Something as simple as picking up a second weapon grants you the bonus action to make an off-hand attack.

But requiring that the rules specifically say you don't get a bonus action is completely backwards. Just so you know

 

[CapnZapp]

I see. The PHB reads that you can only try grapple or shoving with one attack using the Attack action, not all of them. You sill get your other attacks if you do a shove or grapple, just not multiple grapple or shove attempts. That is sensible.

This would indeed be sensible.

But as I understand it, that's not what this thread is about?

(it seems to say that monsters don't have this at all. Besides, can't player characters turn ALL their attacks into grapples?)

 

[Celtavian]

This would indeed be sensible.

But as I understand it, that's not what this thread is about?

(it seems to say that monsters don't have this at all. Besides, can't player characters turn ALL their attacks into grapples?)

No. The PHB says you can only replace one. I thought the rule was similar to 3E sunder rules. It isn't. You have to use the Attack action and only one attack of your multiple attacks can be replaced with a Grapple or Shove. So no doing either with AoOs. At least according to the PHB, no idea if there is an alternative sage ruling. Personally, I like the ruling. No attempting to knock people down or grapple with every attack.

 

[Pickles III]

No. The PHB says you can only replace one.

I read this differently -IMO that statement is there to state that if you have multiple attacks you only need to give up one of them to grapple not all of them.
ie it is is to point out you only need one attack for a grapple/shove not your whole action rather than limiting it to one use per round.

I can see your reading but don't subscribe to it & mine is hardly explicit about whether you can make multiple grapples etc.

I had carried this though into monster multi attacks & will continue to ignore the mearls comment where I feel it is appropriate.