So ... my DM doesn't let us buy items ... ever ... what do I do?

[Renthar]

Maybe Renthar can shed some light on the situation in previous campaigns.

So for reference, the DM is more or less my best friend. This is part of the reason I want to be careful with this whole situation. I don't want something like this to mess with our friendship, but I would still like to enjoy the game.

Anyway, as a result, while we have gone through several campaigns our players have shifted in and out (Myself and a few others have stayed fairly constant). In terms of past campaigns what players do with their money ranges from decent to horrible. Sometimes we have people that buy useful items (better equipment, consumables that compliment their build), sometimes we have people who will spend their money on potions and consumables, and other time's we've had players who won't spend money at all (they just get it and hold onto it).

Most of the time though its the last two. Sometimes if they aren't spending their money its because they are saving for something but many times its because they just don't care to look through the item lists (either because they are intimidated by the sheer size, or because they are lazy).

The way we've done items in the past has varied. Initially we would get gold and treasure based off of loot rolls. Then we move on to a system where if we wanted to buy items we could but the less experienced players could have the DM help them with purchases. He then decided that a player could buy their own items if he deemed them experienced enough but if not he would just provide them with loot. And then finally we have arrived at the system that is the reason for this question.

 

[S'mon]

it seems like changing something that's this integral to the system is stepping over this boundary a tad much, or am I wrong in that feeling?

IME 4e works fine with DMG2 Inherent Bonuses and no magic items at all. If you're feeling hard done by and would like more assurance your combat stats won't fall behind the curve, you could ask him to use Inherent bonuses. Then any items he does hand out on top are gravy.

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

Boy, can I sympathise with you Renthar!

The others here have read my comments/posts about the current campaign I'm in, which is very similar to your situation.

We started our campaign and *after* the campaign was started, we were told:

Turn inherent bonuses on
no enchantment transfers
no ability to make anything
you have to take armor off during rests or suffer a penalty.
Portals are closed - can't go anywhere, only short jumps on
the same plane (part of the storyline, I reckon).

Because of the last, everything is more expensive, regeneration
potions for example, are double price, and we're not getting
much gold in the first place.

and a couple of other things I've forgotten for the moment.

It totally changed what several of the players had planned on doing with their characters...including me.

So how to compensate? Well, in my case I'm taking feats and powers to do the things I would normally have done with magic items. Which of course, is a limitation, but there it is...

Good luck with your campaign.

 

[the Jester]

Are you talking about magic items, or ALL items?

I can see how not being able to buy food or ale for the dwarf would be awful.

If you are talking about magic items, though, I'm with the dm. If you want to pick and choose, learn Ritual Casting and take Enchant an Item. You still can only get common items, but it's better than nothing.

But yeah, I'm firmly with your dm on this one, and this is why I really favor not having magic items in the PH.

 

[Renthar]

Are you talking about magic items, or ALL items?

I can see how not being able to buy food or ale for the dwarf would be awful.

If you are talking about magic items, though, I'm with the dm. If you want to pick and choose, learn Ritual Casting and take Enchant an Item. You still can only get common items, but it's better than nothing.

But yeah, I'm firmly with your dm on this one, and this is why I really favor not having magic items in the PH.

Can you explain why you agree with him? I don't want this thread to be a place where people just post who they agree with. I would like actual reasons (as if I am wrong I would like to be able to logically justify this to myself).

Its all items, we just don't have access to money anymore, not that we cant get a hold of things, its just that he decides what we get a hold of (and we can't ask for certain things, or at least when I proposed that idea he didn't seem to like it).

 

[Tukka]

Tequila Sunrise said it pretty well, I think. Your DM's goal is probably laudable, but his logic doesn't seem completely sound. The Christmas tree effect is annoying, and in many settings, the profuse availability of magic items is damaging to verisimilitude (you can work around this somewhat with flavor/exposition emphasizing how extraordinary your party's various trinkets are, and the trouble your character had to go through to get them, but that's not perfect either).

Also, if magic items can be easily sold (especially for full value) or if your DM plants your wishlist items as loot, that robs the players of a lot of the surprise and delight unexpectedly finding cool items, or the fun of trying to leverage some benefit out of a piece of gear that may be useful, but not something you had planned for or built around.

That's the "old school" way of thinking and it has legitimate merits. 4e is designed more with the "new school" in mind, where items are more an extensive of character build and players are expected to get more or less what they want -- although the game certainly does not have to be played that way. If the DM wants to run a more old school game, that's certainly his prerogative and it can be a good thing.

However, your DM seems to be going overboard with his implementation, and introducing this fairly radical change from the norms mid-campaign with no apparent input or feedback from players is pretty hard to defend, IMO.

 

[the Jester]

Can you explain why you agree with him? I don't want this thread to be a place where people just post who they agree with. I would like actual reasons (as if I am wrong I would like to be able to logically justify this to myself).

It's pretty much a playstyle preference issue more than anything.

 

[luide]

As other posters note, this is true.

Unlike S'mon, in fourth edition, I sympathize with your position. If you're into character building at all, you can't ignore items as a resource. In this position, you can't ignore that certain items are essential to a particular character build. Frost cheese comes to mind: if you're taking the two frost-cheese feats, the DM would have to be rather mean to not provide you with the item you need to actually implement the whole thing.

Or he is being very smart, depending on relative levels of optimization within players. Many of the builds that require certain item combinations are just plain broken.
Allowing player with optimized character free pick of items is easily enough to make the gap between characters completely unbridgable.

Personally, I've always hated Frost-cheese with passion. I allow my players to use it, but I've told them that they will never receive Frost Weapon. Similarly I don't allow Dragonmarks unless I'm playing in Eberron.

I also use Inherent Bonuses to get rid of the Christmas Tree effect. Only negative thing I've seen about it is that it devalues plain +1 Magic weapons at level 2/3, and that is really minor issue.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Its all items, we just don't have access to money anymore, not that we cant get a hold of things, its just that he decides what we get a hold of (and we can't ask for certain things, or at least when I proposed that idea he didn't seem to like it).

As Tukka says, your DM seems to be going overboard even assuming his intentions are noble. But I think your best bet is to express your concerns, which it sounds like you already have, and then be a sport. Who knows, maybe he'll give everyone really useful items and you'll end up having stuff you would have bought in the first place.

If not, well, you can re-examine your situation after an adventure or two. You might have to make a tough decision if your DM remains stubborn, but hopefully he'll learn from this experience.

 

[Ferghis]

Frost cheese comes to mind: if you're taking the two frost-cheese feats, the DM would have to be rather mean to not provide you with the item you need to actually implement the whole thing.

Or he is being very smart, depending on relative levels of optimization within players. Many of the builds that require certain item combinations are just plain broken.

I'm fine with a DM that says that s/he won't allow certain item/feat combos. But, as with all house rules, state it up-front: don't let a player invest in the feats and then just leave them hanging for the item. A DM that lets players waste feats in this manner is not smart. Just mean.