So tell me about the Book of Exalted Deeds in play

[RichGreen]

Hi,

The half-celestial monk in my epic game took the Vow of Poverty after his prize magic item (the cheesy headband of perfect excellence from Sword & Fist) was sundered and I made it clear he wasn't going to be able to buy one off the rack. There were no significant balance issues. At that level, it's interesting to have a character in the party whose power isn't defined by his gear.

We also used some of the feats -- again, no real issues.

From a roleplaying point of view, I prefer Sean Reynolds' Anger of Angels book, although I like the celesital paragons.

Cheers


Richard

 

[Big Jake]

I introduced elements from the BoED when my players were just about to make 6th level (so they could take exalted feats at 6th level). They just made 12th level last weekend, and I don't think the rules have unbalanced the game at all.

In some cases it has helped them (in certain specific cases, greatly so), and in others it hasn't made a difference. They haven't been in any encounters that the rules from the BoED have been detrimental to the party, except for the ranger with the Vow of Poverty feat. He has been "shunned" by the nobility and many of the well-to-do, and the help that they have to offer has turned to other "well-groomed" individuals. So his role in the city has changed dramatically.

Some of my observances:

Certain properties of the BoED are automatically beneficial in the normal Good vs. Evil campaign. If your characters are good, then their enemies will most likely be evil. Hence, many of the feats will obviously be helpful to them, knowing that they will be facing a lot of evil baddies. But, since I will tailor-make bad guys to go against them, its just fair to let them prepare themselves as they see fit.

For example, the Sanctify feats do extra damage to evil creatures. Good guys will fight evil, so this would stand out as fairly helpful.

The Vow of Poverty feat would be extremely unbalancing in a low-magic, low-treasure awarding campaign, and it probably shouldn't be used in that setting. However, in the oposite extreme, a high-magic, high-treasure awarding, magic-shops-on-the-corner type of campaign, the feat could leave the character slightly behind the rest of the party. And... if you award more treasure than standard, the feat will be weaker. Anything in between, and the feat should be just about standard when compared to the equivalent character equipment-benefits.

The benefits beyond the benefits of the VoP is that the character doesn't don armor when hastily awakened. He doesn't have to worry about his gloves of dexterity being stolen. Or destroyed. Or dispelled. And that applies to all of the benefits that replace magical equipment that a character otherwise would have.

As for how I brought it into my game:

I told my players a few weeks in advance that I was working them up to an encounter that would allow them to take exalted feats, and that I would allow the majority of the BoED into the campaign. I wanted them to be able to look at their characters and make any adjustments to their character path, if desired, to be able to become an exalted character.

I ran Fallen Angel, from the WotC website, to introduce them to some trumpet archons at the end of the adventure. The trumpet archons gave them "the blessings of Celestia," and opened the door for them to use the BoED.

(As a campaign note, I am running the Adventure Path from Dungeon magazine, this encounter occured about the same time that Alek Tercival was meeting the "trumpet archons" near the Demonskar. When the group's paladin met up with Alek next, they were both swapping stories of blessings from trumpet archons. By the time the party finally made it to the point of drinking the elixir, they bought it hook, line, and sinker. )

From a role-playing perspective:

The party ranger made the biggest change in character concept. His character had been, up to that point, very self-centered. Very "an eye for two eyes," if you catch my meaning. He began the transition to a good-alignment the next week, giving him some time to role-play it in.

After he took his first vow, I told him he would have to work his way up to the VoP feat by slowly getting rid of his equipment, trading away his magic items for mundane, his magic weapons for masterwork (at first), and donating all of his treasure to charities. (He chose a soup kitchen for the poor and the various temples, primarily St. Cuthbert.) When he gained 9th level, he was met by an avatar of his goddess, and she swore him to the VoP, taking the rest of his equipment and leaving him with almost nothing. It also gave me the opportunity to tell him, in game, that he would be bound to the vow, and that he would lose all the power granted to him if he were to forsake them.

The role-playing aspects brought into the game from the BoED have been outstanding, and very rewarding to the players who use it. The feats, of course, have made the party well-prepared to face the onslaught of evil that they have encountered, and that too is very rewarding to the players.

As DM, I feel rewarded by having the players care enough about my campaign, that they are interacting with their environment (role-playing) and taking the time to prepare their characters for the challenges that await. We're all having a good time at it.

 

[ruleslawyer]

At your game table it may be a no no but at my table, what I say goes and I'm quite happy with him being denied money, magic items, not being able to have weapons etc.. offered or loaned to him by other PC's etc.. as part of his vow, but i'm not going to implement the vow in such a way as to help encourage his death.

My apologies. The impression I received from your post was that potions (generally) as well as potentially other items, could be borrowed from other party members.

 

[Neo]

My apologies. The impression I received from your post was that potions (generally) as well as potentially other items, could be borrowed from other party members.

Heh no worries. I restrict him to the healing potions (or ointments as they are referred to in my game) only, and even then they don't as a group have carte blanche access wise to them and can only get them in limited quantities..
Hence I don't prevent our PoV monk from having some though obviously he cannot buy them himself though as he has no funds but healing ointments are purchased as a group resource with my lot as opposed to on an individual basis they buy them and then dish them out to whoever needs them when they need them including the monk, but the same doesn't go for other potions or items...so he definitely goes without but to the extent of bleeding to death for no reason

 

[Vocenoctum]

One of the games has had an Apostle of Peace (Marshal from Mini's HB) and he's been pretty low key. The only real overpowering part is his +34 diplomacy. Can't have a normal conversation!

 

[Wycen]

We've been using the BoED in our new campaign from the beginning. At first the party had about 3 exalted characters, a barbarian, monk and maybe wizard. The monk has the Vow of Poverty. She seemed to be pretty useful in combat, having a god awful AC and inflicting pretty good damage.

Then the barbarian's player decided to switch to wizard, since the wizard player decide to switch to fighter and the barb's adamantine spiked chain was proving to much for the DM to handle. At this point we also gained a new player so I don't know if any exalted characters remain besides the monk, (we've all been given the Ancestral Weapon feat for free but you only need a good alignment).

Then the monk's player had to skip a game and left his character sheet with me. Well, I'm anal retentive about understanding all the abilities of a character so after playing with the PC that night I did some research and that led to a now castrated but legal monk.

From a roleplaying perspective the Exalted stuff really hasn't been a big deal. The spells from the book are used only by my character, as you don't need to be exalted to use any of them and I haven't seen any problems so far. The DM hasn't complained.

The exalted feats do seem a tad on the weak or limited side unless you have a definite good versus evil campaign, which we do. However, the Touch of Golden Ice seems to be one of those, WTF? kind of feats.

Nearly all the players are dedicated to Law, except mine and the spellfilching gnomish rogue. This alignment issue actually had a bigger impact at the beginning of the game than any exalted content. The single most potent bit of the book of exalted deeds that we've used is the warden archon and other forms from the book for the polymorphed monk. Before my audit, the monk in bear warden form was doing 2d8+9 +d4 vs. evil per hit.

But that is because we hadn't bothered to notice you can't polymorph into outsiders unless you were of the outsider type.

 

[Taneel BrightBlade]

why is this book rated NC17 or M or what ever you call the rating on a book

 

[sparxmith]

Both the Book of Vile Darkness and the Book of Exalted Deeds received the Mature rating. I read somewhere that the reasoning was the addressing of ideas of life and death, morality, and religion. The BoVD definitely deserved the rating for its contents. BoED probably received it because wizards didn't want to potentially offend anyone with it's Celestial Paradigm. (I say this because I know my family would claim that the book is as Satanic as the BoVD for attempting to emulate religion. I'd continue, but we're not supposed to talk about religion. ).

 

[Jolly Giant]

I've been running two simultaneous campaigns with the same group, one exalteed and one vile. The vile one got started about a year before the BoVD was released, the exalted campaign started when BoED came out.

Both have been great fun, and we've yet to come across anything really unbalancing. None of the PCs have taken the VoP though; they all like their magic goodies too much, I guess.

 

[rushlight]

I've allowed the BoED in my game, with only a few exclusions.

First, let me say that my campaign is very heavily focused in the "good vs. evil" spectrum, so this book fits in very well (as does the BoVD). I particularly like the chapter on specifically what "exalted" good means, and the beliefs and actions taken by someone of that nature. It really explains it well - far better than I could have myself. It's a perfect guide for players to have, so there isn't any confusion between what the DM thinks is "good" verses what the player considers "good".

Anyway, the only things I'd removed from the book are the "good" poisons and diseases, and the PrC Servant of Barachaiel (or however you spell it). I tossed the poisons and diseases on principle - they just don't fit in my world. The PrC I tossed beacuse it was just tragically overpowered, especially at the level of my game. It's main class ability is to convert a baddie into a good guy - via a mechanic that pits the diplomacy check of the PrC verses a will save of the baddie. The problem is skill checks can far exceed will saves, and none of my players even had the ability to make the saves at the skill levels they would be using the ability at.

On the Vow of Poverty, I can say that I had no problems. The key to this feature (and to the whole book really) is that if you start making exceptions, then you are giving the BoED stuff more power than they deserve. Neo, you said you don't want to restrict your players from having a quick heal potion handy - but they took a Vow of Poverty. Not a "Vow of not having the stuff my abilities duplicate - but I can still carry some useful stuff". VoP means they have nothing - and if that makes things difficult, well then that's just the path they chose. Life is hard in the big city. If you start making exceptions early, soon your players might be saying, "their character wouldn't be stupid - they'd add some magic items to help keep them alive along with those potions" - and by your rules, that logic would be sound. It's not that you are wrong (it's your game, and your rules) but it's just that you have given the VoP PC more power (just a little) than the designers intended. As long as someone adding BoED makes that decision with his eyes open, then that's fine.

In short, the rules with this book were designed to go hand-in-hand with the roleplaying enforcement of "exalted good". If you choose not to do that, then you are tilting the board in their favor, and away from those PCs who did not choose the Exalted path. Also, be aware that the enforcement of "exalted good" could create intra-player tensions if all of the players are not on the same page. An Exalted character might cramp the style of a player who's just at the game to beat things. All in all, I'd say it's a welcome addition to my game - but that it's inclusion is very campaign specific.