Dandu
First Post
The infinite XP trick is good grounds for the DM deciding that his mage has memorized Teleport through Time.
-
The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
so, there's this level 45 evil mage...
- Thread starter Thatguy27
- Start date
maleficarium
First Post
Well as Dandu said earlier the only reason this battle might be more than a one sided slaughter is that the DM is (claimed) to be relatively inexperienced. Though why a newbie DM is running a campaign with lvl25 characters is beyond my understanding.
As for my suggestion for the battle, just go with the flow. Get as many buffs as possible up before engaging and keep away from AMFs unless you get a chance to get him grappled in one. You never know, there might not even be a battle, he might be a seriously misunderstood kind soul that just wanted to save the world from global warming.
If you keep thinking how to fight him if he is a really T.O. built mage of that level, you should just turn around and run. RUN. At level 45 he can easily be immune to AMFs, have spell stowaway for time stop, have infinite damage loops available on a variety of damage types and attacks, have COMPLETE spontaneous spellcasting, have Su. abilities to cover for spells when silenced and have enough contingencies to cover from 'I just got grappled' to 'The DM's girlfriend just joined the party'.
As for my suggestion for the battle, just go with the flow. Get as many buffs as possible up before engaging and keep away from AMFs unless you get a chance to get him grappled in one. You never know, there might not even be a battle, he might be a seriously misunderstood kind soul that just wanted to save the world from global warming.
If you keep thinking how to fight him if he is a really T.O. built mage of that level, you should just turn around and run. RUN. At level 45 he can easily be immune to AMFs, have spell stowaway for time stop, have infinite damage loops available on a variety of damage types and attacks, have COMPLETE spontaneous spellcasting, have Su. abilities to cover for spells when silenced and have enough contingencies to cover from 'I just got grappled' to 'The DM's girlfriend just joined the party'.
maleficarium
First Post
Yea well, the difference I have known is that P.O. is stuff you would actually do in a real campaign while T.O. are things that are kept on the drawing board, just for our mental entertainment. Going by that, the build described above would (should) never be run in a campaign unless you are also using books like Immortal's Handbook: Epic Bestiary. Sure, it doesn't compare with pun-pun on level 2 but it's still something noone would run in a real campaign.
Loren Pechtel
Explorer
The first silence got taken out with a silent dispel.
Greenfield
Adventurer
First, it better be a Silent Greater Dispel, and even than it takes a good dice roll. Greater Dispel tops out the levels you can add at 20, while the target can carry all the caster levels of the 25th who cast it.
Second, Dispel (Greater or otherwise) can be used as an area effect, or targeted on a person or object.
Since the areas overlap, and the Dispel area only needs to overlap with the areas of the Silence spells, not with the center, it wouldn't be hard to pop them both with the one spell.
Start with the presumption that a 45th level caster has See Invisible and Arcane Sight up permanently. He'll know that there are two Silence spells. He'll know where they're centered, and he'll know where they overlap.
If you center it on an object that you throw, expect him to kick it away or otherwise shed himself of it.
So don't attach it to a stone or coin, attach it to a Tanglefoot Bag so it will stick to him and be a pain to get rid of.
Have your own Counterspells ready for his Greater Dispell(s). He'll only have so many of them, after all, while you can come armed with a Wand, Staff or Scrolls holding as many as you need.
Come with Disintegrates in number, to blast through the Cube of Force he'll almost certainly have. Inside one of those he can blast away with magic while being completely safe from any return fire.
Prepare scrolls with several spells in sequence, designed to take down Prismatic Walls and Spheres. It's a specific series of spells in a specific order. Think of these as magical "breaching charges". You'll need them.
Use Dust of Disappearance liberally. Ordinary See Invisible and Invisibility Purge won't pierce it. He'll need True Seeing, according to the DMG.
Use off the wall stuff, like Dust of Choking and Sneezing. Prepare gaze spells, to keep him busy through his Wall of Force, Force Cage and/or Cube of Force defenses.
Be prepared to keep hitting him, round after round, with such a wide variety of stuff that he can't possibly have prepared defenses against all of it.
Use the "Portable Hole + Bag of Holding" land mine, if you can break his tower's Dimensional Lock effect. Dragging him away from his home field advantage can be a game changer.
Use the Iron Bands of Bilaro item, or whatever it's called. Yeah, it's a one-shot wonder type knockout punch, and is unlikely to work, but you can't win if you don't try.
Presume that he'll have an SR that's through the roof, and prepare a boatload of spells that ignore SR. Fire Seeds is a wonderful one in that capacity.
Be aware that, according to the Epic Level Handbook, Constructs can be possessed and controlled under some circumstances. A Golem body under a Hat of Disguise can make him waste a lot of spells trying to deal with something that's immune to them. It can also pound him to bloody hamburger while he's trying.
Second, Dispel (Greater or otherwise) can be used as an area effect, or targeted on a person or object.
Since the areas overlap, and the Dispel area only needs to overlap with the areas of the Silence spells, not with the center, it wouldn't be hard to pop them both with the one spell.
Start with the presumption that a 45th level caster has See Invisible and Arcane Sight up permanently. He'll know that there are two Silence spells. He'll know where they're centered, and he'll know where they overlap.
If you center it on an object that you throw, expect him to kick it away or otherwise shed himself of it.
So don't attach it to a stone or coin, attach it to a Tanglefoot Bag so it will stick to him and be a pain to get rid of.
Have your own Counterspells ready for his Greater Dispell(s). He'll only have so many of them, after all, while you can come armed with a Wand, Staff or Scrolls holding as many as you need.
Come with Disintegrates in number, to blast through the Cube of Force he'll almost certainly have. Inside one of those he can blast away with magic while being completely safe from any return fire.
Prepare scrolls with several spells in sequence, designed to take down Prismatic Walls and Spheres. It's a specific series of spells in a specific order. Think of these as magical "breaching charges". You'll need them.
Use Dust of Disappearance liberally. Ordinary See Invisible and Invisibility Purge won't pierce it. He'll need True Seeing, according to the DMG.
Use off the wall stuff, like Dust of Choking and Sneezing. Prepare gaze spells, to keep him busy through his Wall of Force, Force Cage and/or Cube of Force defenses.
Be prepared to keep hitting him, round after round, with such a wide variety of stuff that he can't possibly have prepared defenses against all of it.
Use the "Portable Hole + Bag of Holding" land mine, if you can break his tower's Dimensional Lock effect. Dragging him away from his home field advantage can be a game changer.
Use the Iron Bands of Bilaro item, or whatever it's called. Yeah, it's a one-shot wonder type knockout punch, and is unlikely to work, but you can't win if you don't try.
Presume that he'll have an SR that's through the roof, and prepare a boatload of spells that ignore SR. Fire Seeds is a wonderful one in that capacity.
Be aware that, according to the Epic Level Handbook, Constructs can be possessed and controlled under some circumstances. A Golem body under a Hat of Disguise can make him waste a lot of spells trying to deal with something that's immune to them. It can also pound him to bloody hamburger while he's trying.
Dandu
First Post
Pray to whatever deity you hold dear that he does not have Foresight and Celerity prepared.
Just curious, but what is the procedure for dealing with Epic Level Spells since you can research non-verbal, no somatic component spells that are unaffected by AMFs due to the virtue of being Epic Spells? Going by the list of Epic Spells in the SRD (most of which are rather underpowered), it seems that whoever gets the first one off will win regardless of how many 50 gp alchemical items or war golems the other side has. It's not going to be a long fight; given the fact that a 45th level characters has access to nukes in this game of rocket tag, perhaps it would be more productive to discuss Epic Magic, as non-epic tactics just don't cut it in super high level play.
Standard disclaimer: Assuming the enemy is played competently.
Anyways, I'd like to ask what Epic Magic the OP's party has access to.
Just curious, but what is the procedure for dealing with Epic Level Spells since you can research non-verbal, no somatic component spells that are unaffected by AMFs due to the virtue of being Epic Spells? Going by the list of Epic Spells in the SRD (most of which are rather underpowered), it seems that whoever gets the first one off will win regardless of how many 50 gp alchemical items or war golems the other side has. It's not going to be a long fight; given the fact that a 45th level characters has access to nukes in this game of rocket tag, perhaps it would be more productive to discuss Epic Magic, as non-epic tactics just don't cut it in super high level play.
Standard disclaimer: Assuming the enemy is played competently.
Anyways, I'd like to ask what Epic Magic the OP's party has access to.
Last edited:
Lt. Riza Hawkeye
First Post
Epic Magic
I am acting as this party's Artificier, so I'll go ahead and field the question of epic magic available to the party.
The fact is, the party is composed of an Elementalist (Fire), a Swordsage (also Fire centered but also holding Shadow abilities), a Wild Mage/Wizard combination, myself, and Pelor's avatar by way of spellcasters. All others are melee fighters with no magical abilities to speak of.
All are considered level 25 at this moment, so they'll have access to whatever their respective charts may dictate. As for myself, I continue to obtain craft reserve with every level but have ceased to obtain spells. I'm going to invest in Metamagic Feats and Crafting Feats to make myself continue to grow in usefulness.
I am acting as this party's Artificier, so I'll go ahead and field the question of epic magic available to the party.
The fact is, the party is composed of an Elementalist (Fire), a Swordsage (also Fire centered but also holding Shadow abilities), a Wild Mage/Wizard combination, myself, and Pelor's avatar by way of spellcasters. All others are melee fighters with no magical abilities to speak of.
All are considered level 25 at this moment, so they'll have access to whatever their respective charts may dictate. As for myself, I continue to obtain craft reserve with every level but have ceased to obtain spells. I'm going to invest in Metamagic Feats and Crafting Feats to make myself continue to grow in usefulness.
Dandu
First Post
Alright, so everything in the Epic Level Spells section of the SRD is fair game?
What you want is a no save, no SR spell as anything else will likely fail for use on him.
Offhand, the only thing in the spell section that will work for this is Lord of Nightmares. If you want anything else, your bet is to use the rules and create your own. Of course, whether you have the time to gather followers, research the spell, and so forth is a question.
Failing that, buff up. Eternal Freedom grants you permanent immunity from a whole host of debilitating conditions such as the ones Greenfield listed above... unfortunately, this applies to your enemy as well so be prepared for that.
Epic Spell Reflection is another one you might as well have up. Unfortunately, everything I said in the preceding paragraph applies to this spell.
Peripety wards against 5 ranged attacks, which is useful if the enemy fires rays at you.
Epic Counterspell might be good to pick up, it gives you a chance of counterspelling the enemy. Unfortunately, he has much more spell slots than you...
Don't bother with Epic Spell Resistance, it'll just make it harder for your allies to buff you.
What you want is a no save, no SR spell as anything else will likely fail for use on him.
Offhand, the only thing in the spell section that will work for this is Lord of Nightmares. If you want anything else, your bet is to use the rules and create your own. Of course, whether you have the time to gather followers, research the spell, and so forth is a question.
Failing that, buff up. Eternal Freedom grants you permanent immunity from a whole host of debilitating conditions such as the ones Greenfield listed above... unfortunately, this applies to your enemy as well so be prepared for that.
Epic Spell Reflection is another one you might as well have up. Unfortunately, everything I said in the preceding paragraph applies to this spell.
Peripety wards against 5 ranged attacks, which is useful if the enemy fires rays at you.
Epic Counterspell might be good to pick up, it gives you a chance of counterspelling the enemy. Unfortunately, he has much more spell slots than you...
Don't bother with Epic Spell Resistance, it'll just make it harder for your allies to buff you.
Yeah, about that...
well, the battle is over. the mage was defeated. it was rather anti-climactic though.
oh, and the world nearly ended. because of us.
you see, the artificer made a pact with a demon and learned all the spells in the game with a clever request for compensation of said pact. he then did the whole infinite exp points. he didn't level up from them, but he could make anything we asked without repercussions. our swordmage decided to take masochism as a feat, and had weapons crafted to give him 3 rounds of infinite stats before dying, and a tsar bomb was made.
these being the important details, we went up to the mage's room. instead of the terribly hard climatic battle we were expecting, he pushed a button and teleported away while self destructing the tower.
the wild magic mage didn't take this very well, and broke the dimension lock, tracked the teleport, and followed him.
later we find that he went inside a desert, under the ground, and away from our effects. wild magic mage becomes pissed, and has us leave through a portal. two people stay behind to watch as he detonates a wild magic bomb into the sand.
the evil mage ends up dying, the swordmage who stayed behind ends up dying, resurrecting, dying, resurrecting, and so on to end up alive, and the artificer staying behind for "science" i believe, turns into an imp.
this was all fine, except the imp still had a tsar bomb in the ready, and a chaotic evil alignment. so he gates into the 1st level of hell right outside of Tiamat's tower, set the bomb down, gates away and shots the bomb right before the gate explodes.
this had less than cheerful results.
to make a long story shorter then, everyone was taken to the beginning of time due to the planes collapsing into the same time space, and to avoid armageden form the demons and angles now fighting on earth because someone let of a bomb in hell to destroy the entire first circle. the artificer/imp becomes a far beyond S level demon and then captured by the inevitables, the swordmage tries his infinite stat trick to gain omniscience with a knowledge: all check with infinite stats, and is also captured. the wild mage spends his time going through the rest of existence again, and later spends his time absorbing the wild magic let louse by the bomb, the rouge spends his time learning the secrets from a demon and watching all this in the wild mage's pocket dimension, and the fire mage, paladin, and crystal-mancer, having gone back in time, become the gods Ignus, Palor, and the new god of crystals respectively.
we were never meant to fight the mage. when we did anyway, stuff happened. strange, irreversible stuff.
...
epic.
oh, and the world nearly ended. because of us.
you see, the artificer made a pact with a demon and learned all the spells in the game with a clever request for compensation of said pact. he then did the whole infinite exp points. he didn't level up from them, but he could make anything we asked without repercussions. our swordmage decided to take masochism as a feat, and had weapons crafted to give him 3 rounds of infinite stats before dying, and a tsar bomb was made.
these being the important details, we went up to the mage's room. instead of the terribly hard climatic battle we were expecting, he pushed a button and teleported away while self destructing the tower.
the wild magic mage didn't take this very well, and broke the dimension lock, tracked the teleport, and followed him.
later we find that he went inside a desert, under the ground, and away from our effects. wild magic mage becomes pissed, and has us leave through a portal. two people stay behind to watch as he detonates a wild magic bomb into the sand.
the evil mage ends up dying, the swordmage who stayed behind ends up dying, resurrecting, dying, resurrecting, and so on to end up alive, and the artificer staying behind for "science" i believe, turns into an imp.
this was all fine, except the imp still had a tsar bomb in the ready, and a chaotic evil alignment. so he gates into the 1st level of hell right outside of Tiamat's tower, set the bomb down, gates away and shots the bomb right before the gate explodes.
this had less than cheerful results.
to make a long story shorter then, everyone was taken to the beginning of time due to the planes collapsing into the same time space, and to avoid armageden form the demons and angles now fighting on earth because someone let of a bomb in hell to destroy the entire first circle. the artificer/imp becomes a far beyond S level demon and then captured by the inevitables, the swordmage tries his infinite stat trick to gain omniscience with a knowledge: all check with infinite stats, and is also captured. the wild mage spends his time going through the rest of existence again, and later spends his time absorbing the wild magic let louse by the bomb, the rouge spends his time learning the secrets from a demon and watching all this in the wild mage's pocket dimension, and the fire mage, paladin, and crystal-mancer, having gone back in time, become the gods Ignus, Palor, and the new god of crystals respectively.
we were never meant to fight the mage. when we did anyway, stuff happened. strange, irreversible stuff.
...
epic.
Last edited:
Similar Threads
