So, what are the "400 actually useful" feats?

I had some that I considered very useful. On a Fighter/ Ranger in 3.0

Improved unarmed strike ( I was paranoid about capture used it often while wielding just one weapon)
Point blank shot (apllied to any ranged weapon this is very versatile)
Precise shot ( The tank in the party was hard to ignore 6'8" half orc BBN with nigh upon max hp)
Run ( saved my bacon at least twice )
Iron will ( didn't save me by it's self but bought me time)
Dodge ( mediocre as i got it just to boost AC not to continue feat tree)


That is all that I remember for now but I later played that char at an advanced level and discovered that power attack can be useful ( by seeing what the other players could do with it while I was under achieving).
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Khuxan said:
Mearls polarises me - half the time I think he's a genius, the other half of the time that he's misguided. Unfortunately, this is one of the latter times. I think choice is one of the best parts of D&D.

Choice is fine.

Too much choice is like too much of anything else. In this case, it can cause analysis paralysis as players wade through dozens of books when designing a character. And, it becomes worse for DMs who might want to design dozens or more NPCs.

There are so many feats that one cannot see the forest through the trees.

Moderation in all things, but WotC does not have this philosophy. Their philosophy is that any idea which can be made into a feat, should be made into a feat because it will sell books. So, you get combat maneuvers and combat modifiers which become feats. You get dozens of similar skill feats (i.e. +2 to x and +2 to y) where one feat would suffice. For example:

Synergy Skill Feat: You get +2 to two different but similar skills. For example, a +2 bonus on all Jump checks and Tumble checks (as Acrobatics). The DM has the final say on which skills are considered similar and can be combined into this feat. Note: This feat can be taken multiple times. Each time it applies to a different set of two skills and the same character cannot take this feat for a skill for which he has already taken this feat (i.e. no Acrobatics +2 to jump and tumble, and another High Dive +2 to tumble and swimming).

Such a feat would have been fine. Ditto for a single feat to replace Lightning Reflexes, Iron Will, and Great Fortitiude. The same amount of choice, but with fewer overall feats is a better design than the plethora they have today.


Since 3E came out (almost 6 years now), our group may have used 40 or 50 total feats out of the thousands. Maybe. Maybe fewer since so many feats are used over and over again. The rest are just a waste of paper and time.

It's not about choice. It's about decent game design where feature creep does not run rampant.


Btw, we will see the same thing with swift and immediate spells and actions in the near future. Now that they are introduced into the game, we will see hundreds of examples of them within the next few years within various game supplements to the point that DMs will have a hard time keeping track of all of the effects happening in the game.

When the BBEG attacks, someone in the group will have an immediate spell or action that will blunt it. It might get to the point that the game could slow to a crawl as everyone decides whether they should use one of their immediate actions or spells now, or hold off.

And, this will make the feat arms race look like a sedate walk in the park. At least feats are typically found in one section in each book (aside from a few sidebars). Immediate actions and spells will be over vast areas of the books (e.g. in sidebards, across the spell section, in the feat section, in the special ability section of PrCs, etc.).
 

FWIW my and my group's problem with the plethora of feats is that there are so many that you could literally make hundreds of characters and never use the same feats twice. I also dislike, as has been previously said, that the majority of feats are absolutely worthless and aren't worth spending a feat on. Most of them seem more like Traits, and if D&D had a good Flaw/Traits system (not that trash in Unearthed Arcana) these "feats" might be better served to flesh out a character. Specifically I'm talking about the ones that give you +2 to two skills; thse should be TRAITS that you get in addition to feats to flesh out your background (like Edges/Flaws in White Wolf games)

As it stands, however, I would never waste a feat on "flavor"; you already get precious few feats as it is. The choice is good, the fact that the majority of feats shouldn't BE feats is bad. Worst of all are feats that shouldn't even be feats. Weapon Finesse, for example, should apply by default to those weapons (and my DM houseruled that it does) without requiring a feat. Point Blank Shot should be the default (ANYONE has a better chance to hit up close). That feat in FR that lets you theme a spell's visual effect should be something that's allowed automatically (obviously you wouldn't get the slightly increaded Spellcraft DC to identify it) without a feat.

Don't get me wrong; I like the choices. But I think it's a little too much when you actually sit down and compare useful feats with the feats that serve little to no purpose in the game but are good for background/flavor.
 
Last edited:

Theres also a sub-group of DMs who believe it is up to the players to make decent characters, and if they pick improved disarm and the campaign mostly focuses on monstrous enemies who dont use manufactured weapons......well so be it, it was their choice.

I disagree on improved crit being a useful feat. It is only useful if it stacks. Hell im not even sure if it would be imba if it stacks like 3.0.....ive seen some convincing maths that it isnt imba, and the burst weapon abiltiies would -still- be too expensive at +2 market price mod even if they stacked. Which is more valuable....a feat slot or a +1 market price mod to the weapon?

Im going to add the following feats to the list :

1.Improved toughness
2.Arcane thesis
3.Arcane strike(duskblade craziness FTW)
4.Praticed spellcaster(for the odd multi-classed spellcaster combinations, such as a paladin going into cavalier)
5.Improved favoured enemy
6.Combat expertise
7.Improved combat expertise
8.Improved trip
9.Water splitting stone
10.Melee weapon mastery
11.All the weapon focus/weapon spec line of feats
12. Spring attack
13.Bounding assault/rapid blitz
14.Weapon supremacy
15.Energy substitution
16.Spell focus line of feats
17.Spell peentration line of feats
18.Improved Initiative
19.Weapon finess
20.Cleave
21.Stunning fist(for monk)
22.Improved grapple(for monk)
23.Extra turning
24.Extra smite
25.Extend/empower/maximise/quicken/twin spell
26.Divine metamagic
27.Divine spell power
28.Persistent magic
 

Question said:
I disagree on improved crit being a useful feat. It is only useful if it stacks. Hell im not even sure if it would be imba if it stacks like 3.0.....ive seen some convincing maths that it isnt imba, and the burst weapon abiltiies would -still- be too expensive at +2 market price mod even if they stacked. Which is more valuable....a feat slot or a +1 market price mod to the weapon?

Or for weapon functions that depend on a successful critical.

Like the Burst features or a number of enhancements available to soulkinives for their mind blade.
 

Corsair said:
With feats being relatively rare, players are pressured to pick feats they will actually USE.

Or that are prequisites for Prestige Classes. How many have endurance as a prequisite feat? At least the 3.5 version gives some extra benefit - you can sleep in medium armors without penalty.
 

irdeggman said:
Or that are prequisites for Prestige Classes. How many have endurance as a prequisite feat? At least the 3.5 version gives some extra benefit - you can sleep in medium armors without penalty.

I think WotC should do this somewhat across the board.

Examine all of the feats and come up with a mechanism (i.e. set of metarules) for "weighing" their utility. If they have a few similar feats which are basically worthless, combine them into one more worthwhile feat and then state that this feat supercedes the previous ones and if the previous one was required for a given PrC, the new feat now meets that prerequisite.
 

Question said:
Theres also a sub-group of DMs who believe it is up to the players to make decent characters, and if they pick improved disarm and the campaign mostly focuses on monstrous enemies who dont use manufactured weapons......well so be it, it was their choice.
FWIW, I would not consider myself part of that subgroup. Chargen should be an open discussion between player and DM, and players should be allowed some rebuild flexibility if they see that choices made back at 1st level are proving useless and unfun.

Basically, I don't see the point of punihsing the player just because D&D is a complicated game that requires significant effort to master.
 

hong said:
I don't see how you get that Mearls is saying choice is bad. If anything, he's saying that choice is GOOD. The problem is that the oodles and oodles of feats is misleading -- the real amount of choice you have is much less than it appears, because many of these feats are crappy.
QFT.

C'mon... 400 feats? That's four times as many as are in the PHB, probaby increasing possible combinations by several orders of magnitude. Choice up the wazoo!

Also, he's not saying there should only be that many; just that's probably the number of truly useful, balanced ones out there right now.
 

KarinsDad said:
Examine all of the feats and come up with a mechanism (i.e. set of metarules) for "weighing" their utility. If they have a few similar feats which are basically worthless, combine them into one more worthwhile feat and then state that this feat supercedes the previous ones and if the previous one was required for a given PrC, the new feat now meets that prerequisite.
Feat mastery levels from IH kind of do this.

IH rules.
 

Pets & Sidekicks

Remove ads

Top