So why can ANYONE use rituals?

[Boarstorm]

Then you need to explain why everyone put up with it from 1974-2008, when there were many competing games that offered more equal representation.

That's easy!

Brand Loyalty: Not just for cigarettes anymore

 

[hong]

Not according to my Captain America Junior Patriot Guide To Spies and Saboteurs, (c) 1941, it isn't!

Lorem ipsum dolor.

 

[AllisterH]

As I said in another thread, Angel, Wesley, and Giles from the BtVs television series are examples of people who can cast rituals, but are not spellcasters per se; There are probably other examples of "ritual casters" in novels or movies that I'm blanking on, but there is precedent in other avenues of fantasy.

And again, I'll mention Conan.

Conan himself uses ritualitic magic (and yes Virginia, it was written by REH himself and not the "imitators")

 

[Lizard]

They didn't. They went off to play WoW. It's time to reclaim that space.

Gee, they started playing WoW in 1974?

One of the earliest innovations in gaming was the removal of classes, with Runequest being one of the first biggies. You could pretty much make any character you wanted there. And, for what it's worth, everyone had access to basic combat/utility spells at no "cost" in other skills, and everyone would eventually join a rune cult and get access to powerful/specialized magic. (Sort of like a paragon path...) Yet, while RQ certainly had its fans, it never came close to D&D with its bland fighters, glass mages, and mobile medkit clerics, nor did D&D incorporate RQ concepts in AD&D, AD&D 2, BECMI, or D&D 3.

Yet now, suddenly, it's become a good idea, despite no market demand for it -- and no obvious shift to other RPGs which already offer that playstyle?

Why is that?

 

[hong]

Gee, they started playing WoW in 1974?

One of the earliest innovations in gaming was the removal of classes, with Runequest being one of the first biggies. You could pretty much make any character you wanted there. And, for what it's worth, everyone had access to basic combat/utility spells at no "cost" in other skills, and everyone would eventually join a rune cult and get access to powerful/specialized magic. (Sort of like a paragon path...) Yet, while RQ certainly had its fans, it never came close to D&D with its bland fighters, glass mages, and mobile medkit clerics, nor did D&D incorporate RQ concepts in AD&D, AD&D 2, BECMI, or D&D 3.

Yet now, suddenly, it's become a good idea, despite no market demand for it -- and no obvious shift to other RPGs which already offer that playstyle?

Why is that?

Sit amet, consectetuer.

 

[Mallus]

Then you need to explain why everyone put up with it from 1974-2008, when there were many competing games that offered more equal representation.

Sales are the ultimate measure of design quality?

Note that a lot of factors factor into market dominance. Quality isn't always high on the list cf. Budweiser.

 

[fuindordm]

Hong speaking in tongues... a sure sign of the RPG apocalypse?

 

[Lizard]

And again, I'll mention Conan.

Conan himself uses ritualitic magic (and yes Virginia, it was written by REH himself and not the "imitators")

One can argue Cugel's attempts to use Iuconnous spells is also a model of this...and one which shows why you need a high Arcana skill.

 

[Lizard]

Sit amet, consectetuer.

Is that Latin for "I do not actually have any facts to refute your argument, so, I'm going to try to be witty and hope no one notices"?

 

[Jer]

There's quite a lot of in-game reasons or world reasons you can use, but the real reason is -- apparently, WOTCs marketers determined most D&D players are narcissists with ADD, and can't stand anyone else being able to do something they can't, or getting 'spotlight' time at the table.

This is one of the most disgustingly insulting things I've seen you say on these boards, Lizard. I like your posts normally, and I think you have a lot of insight in many areas, but this is just rude and insulting to a lot of players.

The ritual casting rules are another attempt at walking a fine line between opening up classes to more diverse character concepts while still holding them true to their archetypal roots. Previous editions have tried to work on this problem in different ways - kits (2e), multiclassing/Prestige Classes (3e) and now 4e has its own set of solutions to this problem. We'll see how effective they are in play.

Personally I'm disappointed that the ritual casting rules apparently require non-spellcasters to be "Paragon tier" before you can pick up the Ritual Casting feat. That's a shame - it strikes me that there's a certain type of Fighter/Magic-User concept that can be built from taking a fighter base class, training in Arcana, and taking the Ritual Casting feat.