Soft Metals Hardness

Tharkon · Apr 29, 2011

lordxaviar said:
really? well items have to be maximum 24 k or its too soft to work with. gold pieces were bit and if they didnt bend they were known to be fake.

Oh right, mistakenly took 14 for the max, forgot it was 24k that is pure gold.

lordxaviar · May 6, 2011

Tharkon said:
Oh right, mistakenly took 14 for the max, forgot it was 24k that is pure gold.

Pure gold is too soft for day-to-day monetary use and is typically hardened by alloying with copper, silver or other base metals. The gold content of alloys is measured in carats (k). Pure gold is designated as 24k. English gold coins intended for circulation from 1526 into the 1930s were typically a standard 22k alloy called crown gold, for hardness (American gold coins for circulation after 1837 contained the slightly lower amount of 0.900 fine gold, or 21.6 kt).

as for the rest is this what we ended on

tin 4
gold 5
alchemical silver 8
electrum 9
copper 7
bronze 9
platinum 8
coin silver 6

this is really working well, lets finalize this...have we left any out?

lordxaviar · May 14, 2011

Celebrim said:
Ok, but I'm still not understanding exactly how the fact that the electrum alloy is naturally occuring (a fact I was aware of) is a rebuttle to the fact that electrum is slightly more durable than either pure gold or pure silver (just as bronze is more durable than pure tin or pure copper and brass is more durable than pure copper or pure zinc). Yes, electrum is naturally occuring but so what. The natural stuff may well be more durable as well, I just haven't found any nice tables that show its properties over a range of mixtures.

Ok I was not using it as a rebuttle just a fact. never said it was less durable not arguing that point. and its not necessary to debate a range of mixtures.
I dont know when they realized that electrum was made of gold and silver, I am sure however that they didnt go out of their way to make it. side note to their ignorance, in the early middle ages they actually went as far to rebury platinum because being so soft they thought it was silver that wasnt ready yet.

In any event, the traditional D&D price of an electrum coin (1/2 a gold piece) suggests that D&D electrum coins are probably somewhat more than 1/2 silver. So again, the natural ratio (in some parts of the world) is not very relevant. Whether a mixture of say 2 parts silver to 1 part gold is noticably more durable than either of its constituents, I couldn't say. But, since this is more art than science, I'll go with my instincts on this and say, "Meh. Maybe. How often are you going to be wearing electrum armor anyway?"

as I will post gary used arbitrary numbers when coming up with the coinage system I quote from his book. but again I am attributing the electrum coins to be made from naturally occuring alloy and not combined on purpose. their value is or was just to give a half way point between gold and silver..

what would their value be under the 3.5 system? 1/2 a gold or 5 silver?

lordxaviar · May 14, 2011

Table: Substance Hardness and Hit Points
Substance............Price ingpor /.1=1sp/.01=1cp Cost for dust/oz Hardness Hit Points

Paper ________.4 each_________________________________^__ 0 2/inch of thickness
Rope______ 1/ 10 lbs _______________________^___________0 2/inch of thickness
Glass__________ ____________________________^___________1 1/inch of thickness
Ice____________ ____________________________^___________0 3/inch of thickness
Wood__________ ____________________________^___________5 10/inch of thickness
Stone__________ ____________________________^__________ 8 15/inch of thickness
Iron_______ .1_________________________________ .02_________ 10 30/inch of thickness
Mithral_____ 148___________________________ 50________ 15 30/inch of thickness
Adamantite 246____________________________ 80 __________20 40/inch of thickness
Steel______ 2 _____________________________ ^ __________10 35/inch of thickness
Copper________ .5
Brass _________3.6 ______________________________.5*
Aluminum
Gold __________50 ______________________________6.95
Alchemical silver _ _________________________^______________8 10/ inch of thickness
Silver _________5 ______________________________.69
Tin ________.35 ______________________________.05
Bronze 1.8 .25 9 20/ inch of thickness
Zinc 16 2.23
Electrum 25 3.47
Platinum 500 69.44
Lead

oh i give up.... will link the page with chart and foot notes... please help fill in the blanks...

http://www.4shared.com/document/i9pB0xC0/breaking_items_and_attacking_o.html

lordxaviar · May 18, 2011

did anyone even look? i have a further expanded list... will put up in a bit.

Tharkon · May 18, 2011

lordxaviar said:
what would their value be under the 3.5 system? 1/2 a gold or 5 silver?

Just like the answer to the following question:
Is the glass half full, or half empty? It's in between.

lordxaviar · May 19, 2011

Tharkon said:
Just like the answer to the following question:
Is the glass half full, or half empty? It's in between.

both

Tharkon · Aug 28, 2011

Late reply, but from the DMG, page 144:

Bronze has hardness 9 and 20 hit points per inch of thickness.

Think that was already established, but now we have a SRD source supporting it.