Solo playtest...

[AllisterH]

I'll use a 10x10 square room with no particular terrain features katra the dwarf start in the South Est corner the Gnoll in the North West so they are 10 diagonal square away.


rnd6 katra: end is near for the lady fighter only hope is luck, first attack hit for 14 then katra use action point for added punishment roll 19 (not 20 ) and hit again for 12 more.
rnd6 gnoll: hit for enlarged 13 damage ('cause bloodied) no need for the bite, katra collapsed to the ground...

Next time i'll try with two character against the gnoll marauder.

Interesting that it took 6 rounds as welll to decide. I wonder if this is the standard amount of round they want PCs to have (4-6). As for the battle, the Gnoll was left with 17 HP which means it could take two more rounds before being killed.

It comfortably won that battle.

Here's four other 6th level creatures,

Shadar-Kai Chainfighter, Level 6 Skirmisher
Medium shadow humanoid XP 250
Initiative +9; Senses Perception +5, low-light vision
HP 54; Bloodied 27
AC 20; Fortitude 19, Reflex 19, Will 17
Speed 6; See also Dance of Death and Shadow Jaunt
M Spiked Chain (standard, at-will) * Weapon
Reach 2; +11 vs. AC; 2d4+3 damage
M Dance of Death (standard, recharge 6) * Weapon, Necrotic
The shadar-kai chainfighter shifts 6 squares and makes 3 spiked chain attacks at any points during his move. He can only attack a given enemy once, but he deals an extra 1d6 necrotic damage with each hit.
Shadow Jaunt (move, encounter) * Teleportation
The Shadar-Kai chainfighter teleports 3 squares and becomes insubstantial until the start of his next turn.

Troglodyte Bonecrusher, Level 6 Soldier
Medium Natural Humanoid
Init +4; Senses darkvision; Perception +5
HP 51; Bloodied 25
AC 21; Fortitude 21 Reflex 18 Will 17
Speed 5
m Greatclub (Standard; at-will) * Weapon
+14 vs. AC; 2d4+4
C Stench (Minor, at-will)
Close burst 1; +10 vs. Fort; Slowed AND -2 atk/Def for the rest of the encounter. Troglodytes immune.

Chillborn, Level 6 Soldier
Medium Natural Animate (Undead)
AC 22, FORT 21, REF 17, WILL 17, HP 48, Bloodied 24, Init +5, Spd 4
Senses: Perception +3. Immune: Poison, Resist: cold 10, necrotic 10, weapon 10
Weakness: Massive Dmg, Vulnerability radiant 5
Attacks: Melee Slam +14 vs AC; 1d6+6 AND Followup
Followup +9 vs Fort; Immobilized 1 rd
Ice Reaper: +5 cold damage to Immobilized or Stunned
Abilities: Massive Damage: Destroyed by single attack of 24+ damage
Wintry Cloud: Creatures take 2 cold damage at start of their turns for each chillborn within 5 (max 8 damage)

Vampire Spawn, Level 6 Minion (Brute)
Medium Natural Humanoid (Undead)
AC 18, Fort 15, Ref 16, Will 15, HP 10, Bloodied 5, Init +11, Spd 7
Senses darkvision; Perception +4
Immune poison, Resist nec 10, Weakness vulnerable radiant 5
Attacks: Melee Claw +11 vs AC; 3 (5 to Bloodied)
Group Attack +3 damage per additional vampire spawn (+5 to Bloodied)
Abilities: Regenerate 3

As can be seen just from these stats, a 6th level monster can have a wide range.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

No, what this shows is that if you use bad tactics, then you will likely lose. It's the flipside of emphasising in-game complexity over build complexity. It also shows that the power curve is shallower than in 3E, which is one of their design goals IIRC. The steep power curve is certainly something I've seen various complaints about.

Also, one 6th level monster in 3e is more like 4 6th level monsters in 4e. A single 6th level solo would annihilate the fighter, but one gnoll is only one quarter of a 6th level encounter.

 

[fedelas]

Cleric&Fighter vs Gnoll Marauder

As promised i'll try the battle with two char. i selected the cleric to add durability and option to the (small) party.
Same room 10x10 square.
Let's the fight begin!

Initiative: Fighter 15 Cleric 12 Gnoll 6 (awful 1 rolled)

rnd1 Fighter: move 5 and charge on the gnoll roll 20!! 15 damage.
rnd1 Cleric: move 5 use sacred flame hit reflex 15 for 7 radiant damage triggger "power of Amaunator" for additional 5 damage and the Fighter gains 2 temporary hp.
rnd1 Gnoll: attack the dwarf, hit for 12 damage. (real bloodfest 1st round...)

rnd2 Fighter: tide of iron miss.
rnd2 Cleric: use lance of faith on gnoll and hit, 9 damage and fighter get +2 to hit next attack,
rnd2 Gnoll: spear attack against Fighter hit, 9 damage for Katra now bloodied.

rnd3 Fighter: minor action second wind, Brutal Strike hit thanks to +2 from lance of faith, 19 damage on the gnoll marauder, action point for additional base attack but miss.
rnd3 Cleric: Erais invoke the benevolence of his god and cast his daily, cascade of light miss but inflict 6 damage, as minor the cleric use healing word on the Fighter and she heals to maximum.
rnd3 Gnoll: again spear, can't move to avoid fighter retribution, roll 20!! 16 damage on the fighter.

rnd4 Fighter: just attack and miss by two.
rnd4 Cleric: healing word give back 14 hp to the fighter, then sacred flame the gnoll for only 5 damage and the dwarf gains 2 temp. hp
rnd4 Gnoll: another spear hit the dwarf fighter for 12 damage.

rnd5 Fighter: Tide of iron miss again
rnd5 Cleric: move 4 square near the gnoll and cast Cause fear, but roll 1 and miss then use AP to lance of faith the gnoll and hit for 6 damage and the bonus.
rnd 5 Gnoll: spear against dwarf never miss! Another blast for 12.

rnd6 Fighter: short of energy katra try one last blow and hit the gnoll marauder for 9 marking him.
rnd6 Cleric: again sacred flame hit the beastman, 9 damage and 2 temp. for the fighter, then the human cleric moves toe to toe with the gnoll and his dwarf comrade.
rnd6 Gnoll: miss the spear attack and prepare for defeat

rnd7 Fighter: unlucky 1 on attack!
rnd7 Cleric: shift 1 and throw lance of faith: natural 20! 12 damage and gnoll marauder gone!
rnd7 Gnoll: die.

So as expected 2 characters with use of daily powers (not so functional this time) have good time against a 250 xp monster (the right amount for one enconter was 200xp).
Note: no possible use of pack attack by the gnoll (not suitable for solo use) no use for the fighter mark and OA but only because to avoid it the gnoll gave his opponents a great tactical advantage; if he attacked strongly on the cleric the fight can be different.

 

[breschau]

You forgot the OA generated from a charge. You missed it both times the dwarf charged.

Also the two characters against the 6th level monster are only 50xp above what they should be anyway. Not that much of a challenge. In my op I was trying to see the limit of what a 1st level character could handle. I think 2.5x more powerful is a bit of a range.

The fighter against the Marauder would be a wipe.

The ranger against the Claw Fighter would be interesting. I'll do that one today and post it.

 

[Gansk]

If anybody wants to try this out for themselves via PbP, follow the link in my sig. I want to try to cycle through all the 4e monsters that we currently know about.

 

[breschau]

A Ranger on the Hunt.

The ranger pregen is stalking his prey. He's hiding in a tree waiting to strike. A Gnoll Claw Fighter comes in sight and the ranger strikes.

Round 0: the ranger is in position using Stealth. Assuming the Take 10/20 rules are still in place, he gets 29 on his Stealth check. Even with Perception +6, there's no way the gnoll will detect him. The ranger marks his quarry.

Initiative: ranger 19; gnoll 19! Assuming higher Dex is still the tie breaker, the ranger wins.

Round 0: Surprise! The ranger uses Careful Attack. He lets fly and rolls 17 (+10 from Careful = 27). Damage is 17 (+1d8 from quarry). Gnoll is down to 53.

Round 1: ranger Careful Attacks again, hits with 21 causing 18 damage (the gnoll is down to 35 and bloodied). The gnoll runs to the base of the tree (granting combat advantage). He sacks his standard action for a move to climb the tree. Not knowing the skill rules for that, I just assume that something with giant claws could make the roll and get up that tree. They are adjacent now.

Round 2: the ranger jumps out of the tree (move). He fires again, hits, causing 13 damage (the gnoll is down to 22 without even touching the ranger). The gnoll jumps out of the tree (move) and uses Clawing Charge on the ranger. It hits with both claws for 21 (bringing the ranger down to 2 hp, just in case you didn't know, he's bloodied too).

Round 3: the ranger Fey Steps back into the tree (move) and fires again, causing 17 damage (the gnoll is down to 5hp). The ranger uses his action point to fire again. A miss! The gnoll moves to the base of the tree and climbs again. Because of the Fey Step the ranger is farther up the tree than the gnoll can reach in a round.

Round 4: the ranger uses his Second Wind to go up to 7hp, he then climbs farther up the tree. The gnoll thinks better of this particular chase, drops, and runs, using the nearby trees as cover the gnoll avoids an arrow in the back. Right here the ranger could have dropped him, but decided to Second Wind.

I used half normal move for climbing. That's an assumption, but it seems to be a good one.

Considering the ranger's Fey Step power, I think this is near perfect tactics on his part. The gnoll did the best he could with what he had. Note though that in a single hit the gnoll nearly killed the ranger, and if I'd rolled better or crit, I would have. Four rounds, the gnoll looked like a pin cushion and the ranger nearly died from one attack. But, he was only hit once in the encounter. One more hit, even with a bad damage roll would have dropped the gnoll. Also note that if the fight were on the ground the gnoll would have slaughtered the ranger with back to back charges in two rounds. No contest.

As with the first solo post, I'm not sure a character should be able to all but take down a monster 2.5 times more powerful than he is. Irrelevant of levels, that's a bit odd to me. I'm a tactical player, and I know that tactics can account for a lot in combat, but that seems to be a bit too much of the 300 syndrome.

In 2-3 hits the gnoll would kill the ranger. It would take 6 solid hits from the ranger to kill the gnoll. Without near perfect tactics, it's no contest. Which I like. That's how it should be. But, this is a skirmisher against a striker. Any other monster role (do they use a different term than role for monsters?) and it's no contest. That's good. It should be that hard. I'm just surprised that even with near perfect tactics the ranger could last that long.

 

[Sunglare]

You forgot the OA generated from a charge. You missed it both times the dwarf charged.

Also the two characters against the 6th level monster are only 50xp above what they should be anyway. Not that much of a challenge. In my op I was trying to see the limit of what a 1st level character could handle. I think 2.5x more powerful is a bit of a range.

The fighter against the Marauder would be a wipe.

The ranger against the Claw Fighter would be interesting. I'll do that one today and post it.

I believe the OA that charge provokes comes from the movement part for any threatened square the charcater would be leaving. Not the attack part of it.

 

[AllisterH]

Nice playtest.

As with the first solo post, I'm not sure a character should be able to all but take down a monster 2.5 times more powerful than he is. Irrelevant of levels, that's a bit odd to me. I'm a tactical player, and I know that tactics can account for a lot in combat, but that seems to be a bit too much of the 300 syndrome..

Well, I'm not sure there is a 1 to 1 correlation between level of the monster and the level of the PCs. My impression is that in a party battle between 5 level X PCs and 5 level X monsters, the PCs actually have a better than 50/50 chance of winning meaning a monster level isn't equivalent to a PC level.

In 2-3 hits the gnoll would kill the ranger. It would take 6 solid hits from the ranger to kill the gnoll. Without near perfect tactics, it's no contest. Which I like. That's how it should be. But, this is a skirmisher against a striker. Any other monster role (do they use a different term than role for monsters?) and it's no contest. That's good. It should be that hard. I'm just surprised that even with near perfect tactics the ranger could last that long.

Well, there's let's see
Brute - high melee damage, pretty much no ranged attacks
Skirmisher - highly mobile attacker. Pretty much the monster version of the Rogue
Lurker - Monster specializes in attacking from ambush. Fades in and out of combat.
Soldier - Monster that works better in large groups. Abilities feed off one another (this admitedly is the one I see having the biggest confusion with another monster role, the BRUTE)
Artillery - Damage from a distance
Controller - Debuffer/Status inflicter.

Which seem to refer to role in combat. That's one axis and there's another

"Normal" (no actual term for this) - worth 1 PC
Minion - worth 1/4 of a PC
Elite - equal to 2 PCs
Solo - Designed for 5 PCs

Which refer to how many slots they take up in combat.

And Finally, there's one other term, namely the LEADER tag. Basically a buffer for the monsters it seems

So how many combinations do we possible have?

 

[fedelas]

I believe the OA that charge provokes comes from the movement part for any threatened square the charcater would be leaving. Not the attack part of it.

I re-read the rules for charging, as written seems to provoke OA independently of the threating square in the movement part, so it was my fault (a brief tought: i like the OA against charging opponent, make sense, you move AND attack in a single action)

I really like the ranger at hunt too; only a little thing: careful strike do only 1d10 not 1d10+4 in the updated char. sheet.