D&D 5E Solution to the problems with Passive Perception!

[Bladecoder]

Hello!

Background:

I have been having longtime issues with Passive Perception in current D&D, I did not want to have to much control over traps and such and I did not want my players rolling perception every time they enter a room; for awhile I thought that there was no solution to this problem, but I think I have finally found and efficient and fair one... First though I will gripe a little more about passive perception.

In 5e I feel that traps and secret doors are a real issue, as the current system is system is set up so the DM either has no control or complete control over them. If a DM builds a dungeon he has to constantly chose the DC for all of the traps he lays in it, and as most DMs know their players passive perceptions, this means a conscious choice over whether players will detect them or not. While on the other end of the issue DMs could just not use passive perception and therefore have little to no control over traps.

Solution:

So now to the solution... Why not have the traps roll instead of the players? I know, I know it is very simple, but I think it works well. Have your players passive perception scores at hand and determine a modifier for your traps and presto! You have a system that has some degree of uncertainty that can still be reasonably monitored by the DM.

Example:

You have a party of four adventurers whom have a set of passive perceptions scores, which are: 10, 11, 13, 15. They are walking through a dungeon and are quickly coming up on a simple pit trap. Well first you set the 'detection modifier' for the trap, in this case it would be low due to the fact it is just a simple pit trap, so let's say +2. Then you roll to see how well the trap goes undetected.

You roll a ten and add two (12), this means that only two players notice the trap (the players with the 13 and 15) and you tell them accordingly.

Final thoughts:

Well that is it for now, this was a solution that I came up with relatively recently so I would love to hear some feedback.

Thanks for your comments. Bye!

 

[robus]

Yep, that’s definitely a cool option. Other options (including yours) are discussed in this recent thread: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?591215-I-don-t-use-Passive-Perception

 

[pukunui]

That was actually something the designers toyed with during the 5e playtest period. I quite liked it.

That said, I generally just use passive Perception as a DC for monster/NPC Stealth checks. Sometimes I might use it if I want to give the PCs clues ("You notice a faint breeze coming from over by that statue"), but I don't use it to determine if the PCs find traps or secret doors or whatever.

 

[Horwath]

imho, that is the way it should be used most of the time.

before, if players roll perception high, they expect to notice something. Or if they dont then they "know" that most probably there is nothing there to find.

So stealth rolls for traps are good way to keep passive perception. especialy with observant feat and leave little randomness in finding traps.

 

[pukunui]

Here's an article on the subject that I found enlightening: http://dmsworkshop.com/2017/09/08/dd-tips-using-passive-skills/

 

[FrogReaver]

Hello!

Background:

I have been having longtime issues with Passive Perception in current D&D, I did not want to have to much control over traps and such and I did not want my players rolling perception every time they enter a room; for awhile I thought that there was no solution to this problem, but I think I have finally found and efficient and fair one... First though I will gripe a little more about passive perception.

In 5e I feel that traps and secret doors are a real issue, as the current system is system is set up so the DM either has no control or complete control over them. If a DM builds a dungeon he has to constantly chose the DC for all of the traps he lays in it, and as most DMs know their players passive perceptions, this means a conscious choice over whether players will detect them or not. While on the other end of the issue DMs could just not use passive perception and therefore have little to no control over traps.

Solution:

So now to the solution... Why not have the traps roll instead of the players? I know, I know it is very simple, but I think it works well. Have your players passive perception scores at hand and determine a modifier for your traps and presto! You have a system that has some degree of uncertainty that can still be reasonably monitored by the DM.

Example:

You have a party of four adventurers whom have a set of passive perceptions scores, which are: 10, 11, 13, 15. They are walking through a dungeon and are quickly coming up on a simple pit trap. Well first you set the 'detection modifier' for the trap, in this case it would be low due to the fact it is just a simple pit trap, so let's say +2. Then you roll to see how well the trap goes undetected.

You roll a ten and add two (12), this means that only two players notice the trap (the players with the 13 and 15) and you tell them accordingly.

Final thoughts:

Well that is it for now, this was a solution that I came up with relatively recently so I would love to hear some feedback.

Thanks for your comments. Bye!

I'm sure countless people have came up with that same idea. The funny thing is your idea was just posted on this forum very recently and before this post. Bad timing on your part?

 

[Bladecoder]

Yeah I apparently got beaten to the punch! But I am more so happy that the idea is out there, because it just seems like a good way to use passivs percepion.

Anyways I should probably give the aforementioned article a read.

 

[fuindordm]

It definitely works, but it also removes some sense of agency. When the party is being stalked by monsters, stealth vs passive perception feels fair. When the party is ambushed by a trap, it seems less fair. There's also the question of what happens after the first trap hits them and they start actively searching--do you still roll for the trap, but increase the DCs by 5? How does the rogue's expertise fit in?

An alternative used by my DM is to prepare a randomized list of 1-20 before each session. The players still roll, but in cses where they shouldn't know how close they are to success then the DM uses the list as a lookup table. Then modifiers and advantage can be applied transparently. For example:

PC: "I search for traps. Ability X gives me advantage. I roll 12 and 18, my modifier is +5."

DM: (checks table on screen)

20 -> 5
19 -> 12
18 -> 17
17 -> 3
16 -> 10
15 -> 8
14 -> 14
13 -> 1
12 -> 15
etc...

The player's rolls translate to 15 and 18, +5, so the result is 23. The DM doesn't tell the player the rolls, but announces that they found a trap.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

As the DM - or even just as a roleplayer - compartmentalizing your knowledge is a vital skill. You must learn to ignore data that you shouldn't have access to; or, at the very least, you need to be good at approximating what you would have done if you could ignore it.

As the DM, you should be able to disregard the Passive Perception values of the PCs while you assign the detection DC of traps and secret doors, in the same way that the players disregard any maps they may have accidentally seen. Until such time as you have developed that skill, your suggestion serves as an adequate substitute (with its own lists of benefits and drawbacks, which have been discussed at length in the past).

 

[Shiroiken]

I have been doing this since I started running 5E (just before the DMG came out). I did the math, and if you assume the DC for the trap/door/ninja/whatever is the Passive score of the PC, then the modifier should be the DC-12. Some feel it's more intuitive for the check to exceed the Passive score to remain hidden, in which case the modifier is the DC-11.

Out of curiosity, can anyone point me to the section in the PHB or DMG where it says to compare the passive score to a set DC? The only place I can find where passive checks are referenced is page 175 of the PHB, and it never actually says that (it does mention a Stealth check against passive perception, but that's a rolled check against the passive score). I know that Perkins mentions it in a podcast, but that doesn't count IMO.