D&D 5E Solving the 5MWD

[Maxperson]

I Freaking LOVE Agricola. I love fiddly micromanaging, I love complex scoring systems, I love digging deep for synergy between my options. But nobody else in my gaming group WANTS to play a 4-6 hour boardgame about Medieval Farming in France with Logarithmic Scoring.

You'd probably like Terraforming Mars, then.

 

[Tony Vargas]

If the game they are playing actually supports that playstyle that's fine. D&D doesn't really support that playstyle.

Oh, it does, so long as you all play the Tier 1 (neo-Vancian) classes who are optimal for it - maybe the odd Barbarian - class imbalance is the only systemic problem if you otherwise want full-bore high-power clashes like that.

 

[Krachek]

4ed didn't solve it though - it just made it to where everyone benefited from a long rest nearly identically. That solved the intra party balance issues of it. It didn't solve the resulting possible fictional problems arising from players seeking out the long rest and using all their big guns all the time. Also, 4e still didn't work well for month long adventures with maybe 1 encounter per day. Things like that - all issues related to the 5MWD's root cause.

In DnD we are stuck with the spell slot structure use mainly by wizard, cleric, Druid and others.
it Is one of the sacred cow.
if all caster classes would be build like the warlock it would be easier to switch to an encounter base system. That‘s a kind of utopic.
so We have to live with the actual system.

to avoid abuse, keep challenge and some coherence in story pacing, dm and players has to agree to vary and adapt rest pacing and duration. Some good will is needed to achieve that. If players are working in competition against them or the dm it will fail.

I see no other solutions.

 

[Tony Vargas]

You'd probably like Terraforming Mars, then.

You say that like it's a quip or something.

 

[Maxperson]

You say that like it's a quip or something.

I'm not sure what you mean. Terraforming Mars is an excellent game that has lots of working parts to track.

 

[Tony Vargas]

4ed didn't solve it though - it just made it to where everyone benefited from a long rest nearly identically. That solved the intra party balance issues of it. It didn't solve the resulting possible fictional problems arising from players seeking out the long rest and using all their big guns all the time.

Well, of course all the in-fiction reasons to have multi-encounter days are still there - they just don't need to be forced all the time anymore.
And, kinda par for the course, really, there actually were a couple of mechanical reasons to stay at it. Aside from short rests actually being short and allowing significant hps and a few abilities to recharge, you reached milestones every other encounter that gave you an action point and let you access an additional magic item daily or get more out of certain paragon items. Small steps to providing support of longer days, but, more than nothing.

Also, 4e still didn't work well for month long adventures with maybe 1 encounter per day. Things like that - all issues related to the 5MWD's root cause.

The remaining issue with single-encounter days when you don't have a big class imbalance issue going is that the encounter guidelines are calibrated a little easy. So, you dial them up a bit. Because at the pronounced scaling by level, it didn't even require that much - however fresh you might be, over-leveled enemies would seriously challenge you.

 

[Zardnaar]

Make 4 archetypes replacing the big 4 with short rest mechanics no dailies.

 

[Maxperson]

Make 4 archetypes replacing the big 4 with short rest mechanics no dailies.

How does everything being short rest fix the issue?

 

[Harzel]

How does everything being short rest fix the issue?

It doesn't. It eliminates the perception that 5MWD is a problem* by making 5MWD the only way to play the game.

* Excepting for those who might reject the game entirely. But we've never seen that happen.

 

[Harzel]

A "Campaign Loss" still fits into the narrative, though, so it's not purely metagame. Really, it's a non-meta-game relief valve, of sorts.

I have never played 13A, but on the basis of what's been said here, it sounds like there is a very noticeable causal link that, by default anyway, is very meta-gamey. If the DM is free to choose the campaign loss, I guess that increases the opportunities for them to build a fictional bridge between the early rest and the negative consequence.