D&D 5E Solving the 5MWD

[5ekyu]

It's like you keep ignoring the elephant in the room no matter how many times I mention it - you simply don't acknowledge it.

On a 1 encounter then long rest schedule you have a lot more stronger spells in a given combat than converting spellslots to short rest recharge and having a 1 encounter per short rest schedule. Still broken perhaps - but not nearly as broken as the alternative - for combat.

Well not seeing rules in detail prevents an exact conclusion but yes the more different reset rates and resource vs time cases the rules allow then the more varied and different types of scene and encounters you can present.

Currently in 5e I can have a case where between long rests the circumstances provide one or a couple encounters where that matters, a half dozen or even a dozen or more and these can very and change as it progresses - leaving in some cases characters guessing which is which and in some cases the characters knowing. Those each produce very different feels , flavors, choices and results.

I like having that variety in play myself.

 

[Krachek]

I will say again that one of the solution maybe to use variable pacing and duration of resting,

of course the concept of variable resting is hard to apply when you try to explain world dynamic using phb rules.
But phb and dm guide rules are mainly desing to play the game session, not build and run a fantasy universe.

 

[FrogReaver]

I will say again that one of the solution maybe to use variable pacing and duration of resting,

of course the concept of variable resting is hard to apply when you try to explain world dynamic using phb rules.
But phb and dm guide rules are mainly desing to play the game session, not build and run a fantasy universe.

Yes it's a solution. It's not a better solution than what I've proposed. In fact it's worse on many fronts, the chief being that it ties resource recovery to inconsistent fictional events. Much better to go consistently fictional or completely outside fiction for recovery mechanics.

 

[FrogReaver]

Maybe I'm just not understanding you.

True story.

If the wizard has 10 spell slots on a long rest and he has 1 fight and can use them all, how is converting all of those to a short rest and the wizard having 10 slots for each of the 3 fights not just as broken. All that's changed is that you have the wizard going full nova 3 times, instead of 1.

Any long rest to short rest conversion means that you are lowering the overall number of slots to accommodate the change. So more like 3 or 4 short rest spell slots for the 10 long rest ones.

At least with what @Tony Vargas and @coolAlias said, the wizard would get fewer spells to use, which limits how broken things are.

I've been saying the same thing.

...It's amazing how much less of a dum@$$ I appear to be when you stop assuming I'm making dumb statements.

 

[FrogReaver]

This is not true. The game assumes that at some point during the day, a 5th level caster will have access to 3rd level spells. That's doesn't happen with your "fix." The game assumes that casters will have access to a 5th level spell at some point during the day at 9th level. 9th level with your "fix" barely gives the caster 4th level spells. No 5th level spells until 18th level, when the game assumes the caster will at some point during a daily encounter have access to not only 5th level spells, but also 6th-9th, which the caster never gets.

Your "fix" objectively gimps casters far beyond what it would take to have a fair fight with like level monsters. It also gimps every other class, just not quite as badly.

Personally if I wanted to convert spells to short rest recharge I would use spell point variant and then take 1/2 or 1/3 or maybe somewhere inbetween of the spell points that variant gives them.

 

[FrogReaver]

Oh, it does, so long as you all play the Tier 1 (neo-Vancian) classes who are optimal for it - maybe the odd Barbarian - class imbalance is the only systemic problem if you otherwise want full-bore high-power clashes like that.

I do want to give 5e some credit on this front. Concentration limits the amount of power a caster can bring to bear in a single combat.

Their concentration spells are really good over the top combat options. Their non-concentration spells get pretty lackluster pretty quickly. It's still going to be really strong to use a big concentration spell at the start of a battle and then proceed to fireball/magic missile everything else with your remaining highest level slots (in a pure nova style battle) - but I'm not sure it actually comes out better than a feated battlemaster in combats with relatively few rounds (3-4) as the amount of damage he can consistently output on the first combat turn is absurd!

 

[Maxperson]

Personally if I wanted to convert spells to short rest recharge I would use spell point variant and then take 1/2 or 1/3 or maybe somewhere inbetween of the spell points that variant gives them.

That definitely makes it easier, but isn't a solve all when balancing the conversion. It's a good idea, though.

What would you do for the long rest racial/class abilities that Tony wants to chuck out of the window?

 

[FrogReaver]

That definitely makes it easier, but isn't a solve all when balancing the conversion. It's a good idea, though.

What would you do for the long rest racial/class abilities that Tony wants to chuck out of the window?

Theoretically you could convert all abilities including short rest abilities to points and then spend the points on abilities.

 

[Maxperson]

Theoretically you could convert all abilities including short rest abilities to points and then spend the points on abilities.

Would you have separate pools for racial abilities, class abilities, spells and feats?

 

[FrogReaver]

Would you have separate pools for racial abilities, class abilities, spells and feats?

If I was going that route I wouldn't