Some thoughts on a Martial Controller...

[Klaus]

It all started when I came up with a name for a new implement: Reagents. I know, I know, there are ritual-boosting reagents in Adventurer's Vault...

So say there's this type of soldier who specializes in mixing and throwing dangerous flasks in the battlefield. He knows just how much to mix, what powders to add to delay the effect until the payload spreads, etc. With access to "reagents", he could whip up a fiery grenade, a sticky gluebomb, a nauseating fumestick, etc. Some proponents of this class specialize in dealing damage to larger areas, while others specialize in concentrating effects on smaller numbers of foes, and a third would specialize in placing "booby traps" around the battlefield (these would be the three main builds).

This "Controller" type would also be adept at applying his reagents to crossbow bolts (arrows require far too much balance to be properly imbued).

So this "Controller" class would be a mix of an archer, an artificer and a grenadier. What if he runs out of reagents? Well, what if an archer runs out of arrows? Luckily, this "Controller" (note the lack of a proper name here) can scrounge up reagents on the road, foraging for natural and supernatural plants, herbs, oils, etc (replace some spent reagents after an extended rest). Some exploits might require specific items, like a torch, a sunrod or a vial of poison.

So, viable concept?

 

[I'm A Banana]

Sounds like an alchemist class to me!

Part of the issue is that the class's power isn't "martial" as much as it is, well, "chemical." Powers like "greek fire" don't fit in very well, thematically, with powers like "cleave."

Still, yes, totally viable concept in my mind, even if it doesn't mesh up with the power sources exactly well.

 

[Hypersmurf]

DangerGirl! is playing a character who does a lot of what you describe in my PbP... but the PC is a wizard, and we've just themed most of the powers alchemically.

-Hyp.

 

[Starfox]

DangerGirl! is playing a character who does a lot of what you describe in my PbP... but the PC is a wizard, and we've just themed most of the powers alchemically.

-Hyp.

yes, the alchemical blaster sounds like a reskinned Arcanist; Artificer, Sorcerer, or Wizard to me. To truly be a martial controller you need to use some martial tricks and maneuvers.

I'm not saying alchemy cannot be a PART of what a martial controller does, but I don't think it should be the sum of his abilities. In fact, to me the martial controller is very much about flexibility.

Shameless plug: Starfox's Martial Controller.

 

[PoeticJustice]

Sounds viable as a class concept, but also sounds a bit too much like an Artificer or Wizard to divorce the controller away from its "magic-ness".

This is a toughie. This only examples we've gotten so far of Controllers are explicitly magical, and their incarnations from previous editions (where applicable) did pretty much the same thing they do now. Thus, there's never been a martial controller, so designing one now is pretty difficult.

My idea is the Noble. The Noble would represent the archetype of the a seasoned campaigner that directs others to carry out his or her strategies. I know this sounds much like the Warlord, but the build would be totally different.

Whereas a warlord leads the party by increasing attack and damage, healing, and giving saving throws, a noble has a small complement (4, I think) of minion soldiers that he or she orders around using powers. the minions could engage multiple targets and inflict status affects (partially surrounding an enemy to immobilize/slow, multiple strikes to daze/stun, etc.) They could even aid the Noble in directly assaulting foes

It's only a rough idea and it has problems, but I'd be interested to hear what people thought of it.

 

[Leatherhead]

If a ranger or a rogue can use a trick shot to hit someone from a distance and impose a condition on them or force them to move, the martial controller should be able to as well.

I am all for putting poisons/toxins on a weapon for martial classes, as that is something I could easily see someone doing. And easily hand waved as it would take skill in order to handle such things in the heat of battle.

But this made me realize something: One of the problems facing the creation of the martial controller is that people can't seem to think past martial classes using weapons.

If a warlord can inspire courage with words, then a martial controller can use similar words to inspire fear.

I wonder what kind of class would use scare tactics, poison, and underhanded tricks against their enemies?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Sounds viable as a class concept, but also sounds a bit too much like an Artificer or Wizard to divorce the controller away from its "magic-ness".

This is a toughie. This only examples we've gotten so far of Controllers are explicitly magical, and their incarnations from previous editions (where applicable) did pretty much the same thing they do now. Thus, there's never been a martial controller, so designing one now is pretty difficult.

My idea is the Noble. The Noble would represent the archetype of the a seasoned campaigner that directs others to carry out his or her strategies. I know this sounds much like the Warlord, but the build would be totally different.

Whereas a warlord leads the party by increasing attack and damage, healing, and giving saving throws, a noble has a small complement (4, I think) of minion soldiers that he or she orders around using powers. the minions could engage multiple targets and inflict status affects (partially surrounding an enemy to immobilize/slow, multiple strikes to daze/stun, etc.) They could even aid the Noble in directly assaulting foes

It's only a rough idea and it has problems, but I'd be interested to hear what people thought of it.

I tend to think that would indeed be more fitting for a "martial" character. But it seems to add yet another "abstraction" layer to the rules.

You could also have powers that say stuff like:
"Through your tactical mastery, you lure the enemies into a trap", so you might be able to slide everyone within a 2 sq burst and have Minions swarm out to attack them.

But I am not convinced it would feel "right".

 

[Klaus]

A reverse warlord is an interesting concept.

I think we could use a non-Str, non-Dex martial class. The only other physical stat left would be Constitution. Could we work out a controlling type (or 3, to account for other builds) to that relies on Constitution, with two other mental stats as secondary abilities?

 

[Dragonhelm]

My idea is the Noble. The Noble would represent the archetype of the a seasoned campaigner that directs others to carry out his or her strategies. I know this sounds much like the Warlord, but the build would be totally different.

The idea of a noble, and every incarnation I've seen of it in the past, reminds me of the leader role. The warlord takes some inspiration from the noble. Likewise, you can have people of other classes who are noble in nature (i.e. noble wizard), so it seems to me that the existing background is the best fit for a noble.

I think there are two possibilities for a martial controller:

1. Cavalier. Ride a horse into battle, you're going to take command of a battlefield.

2. Xena. With the way she spun around poles and took out half a dozen guys, that just seems like a controller to me.

Otherwise, you might be getting into the territory of gunpowder, which goes against fantasy archetypes for the most part. To each their own, though.

 

[C_M2008]

You're basically asking for a sapper/engineer type class?

While I think it could be done, I'm not sure it would have the right feel, it might just feel like a gimped out wizard.

I think the fighter is probably as close to a martial controller as we're going to get.